Cameron Vs Brown: Their first PMQs

2.40pm: Earlier on I said a narrow win for David Cameron.  Other observers are suggesting a pretty conclusive win for the Tory leader.  A journalist from the BBC has just used the word "triumph" to me!  Ben Brogan has a good post looking at what went wrong for Brown.

Editor's view: "A narrow win for David Cameron - mainly because of GB's silly defence on Hizb ut-Tahrir that he'd only been in the job for five days.  John Reid's intervention almost belittled the new PM.  This is a tricky time for David Cameron.  He cannot go for Brown's jugular in the way he would if we did not have the security scares.  Overall Nick Robinson says that the Tory MPs have a spring in their step after PMQs.  A good PMQs for Ming, too, because of that joke."

ToryRadio has the audio.

12.30pm: Anne Mcintosh asks about flooding and cuts in flood protection measures.

12.27pm: James Gray repeats Rob Wilson's complaint that the Defence Secretary should not share his workload by also having to be SoS for Scotland.

12.18pm: Rob Wilson asks why the Defence Secretary is now a part-time job. Brown responds with a lame joke.

12.17pm: John Reid urges Brown not to be rushed into precipitate bans on organisations like Hizb ut-Tahrir.

12.17pm: Ming uses his second question to encourage Brown to reverse Government support for nuclear power stations and to abolish council tax.

12.16pm: Best joke so far... Brown says that his door is always open to the Leader of the LibDems... Ming responds by saying that Brown's door is more like a trap door!

12.15pm: Ming Campbell calls for a fresh start from Brown on withdrawing from Iraq, the BAe arms deal and the one-sided extradition deal with the USA.

12.12pm: The Prime Minister gets the last word in response to DC's sixth summarising question by encouraging the Tories to support the spending that will be necessary for security and says that the best message that Parliament can send out to terrorists is bipartisan resolve.

12.09pm: GB promises to consider DC's recommendation of a national border police force.  In the spirit of bipartisanship he urges DC to embrace ID cards and quotes Dame Pauline Neville-Jones' alleged support for them.  DC responds by quoting Alistair Darling's historical opposition to ID cards.

12.07pm: DC presses GB again - saying that this is an organisation that has supported the killing of Jews.  GB says that he's only been in the job five days.  Cameron says the Government promised to outlaw Hizb ut-Tahrir two years ago.

12.05pm: DC urges the PM to outlaw extremist organisations like Hizb ut-Tahrir.  A plea he made a year ago.   Gordon Brown fails to answer the question.

12.04pm: David Cameron encourages the Government to authorise the use of intercept evidence.  The PM promises co-operation with the Opposition on the issue.

12.01pm: Daniel Kawczynski MP asks Gordon Brown his first PMQs question on the status of Shropshire as a unitary authority.

11.59am: Andrew Neil hands over to live coverage in the Commons and says 'We do not want to miss ANY of this historic occasion?'  What could he be meaning?

11.45am: Nigel Griffiths MP tells the Daily Politics that Gordon Brown does have a sense of humour and recounts a joke that he made at Nicholas Ridley's expense in the late 1980s.  Andrew Neil says that was twenty years ago - has he said anything funny since?!

Comments

[Umbrella man]

I expect Cameron will ask about security and it might be quite a serious exchange between the two leaders.

Expect the rottweiler questions from backbenchers.

[JimJam]

Why wait for the clash - surely all the Cam haters, trolls and ostriches can slam his performance now ?

[Editor]

too true JimJam.

[HF]

What not another USA sponsored attack on our party? $$$$$$$$$$$$

[Cllr Tony Sharp]

Cameron would do well to open a front on the economy and the problems that have been stored up under Brown's time at the Treasury. Too many people are unaware of the scale of the problems that are coming home to roost.

I see anyone who dares to question the leadership is now labelled as a Cam hater, troll or ostrich. I am so relieved there are enlightened people who seek to reassure people with any concerns about leadership performance that those concerns may have some validity. This paragraph may contain traces of irony.

[Matt Wright]

Agree with JimJam, just let the usual whingers loose with some more entirely predictable bile.

Matt

[JimJam]

Cllr Sharp,

My point is that as was shown yesterday when Cameron did very well he was still slated on this sight - he'd have to win the GE with a 300 majority by 12.30 pm to keep a sizeable majority on here happy.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Just watched a piece on the Daily Politics. What odds on GB getting the word prudent in somewhere!

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Doesnt Quentin look right at home on the Labour benches.

[malcolm]

Only a 300 majority Jimjam? You jest surely! It should be at least 400 and we should be more far more than 100% ahead in the polls. It would all be so easy if we followed the advice of people like Traditional Tory or Stephen Tolkinghome

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Appalling answer by Brown - saying he's been in post for 5 days!!!

[Neil Reddin]

On Hizb ut-Tahrir GB: "I've been here five days (leave me alone)"

Surely Brown can do better than that?

[Andrew Woodman]

Looks like any thoughts of Brown Scrapping ID Cards can be quashed.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

And he keeps saying "When I was Chancellor" or during his time at the Treasury. People want a Prime Minister not a former Chancellor!

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Ughh and the speaker can't even keep up with who is asking questions now!

[Neil Reddin]

So GB is all for cooperation on security ... as long as DC goes along with Brown's policies.

[Matt Wright]

When he was a chancellor he wrecked our pensions,

Matt

[EdR]

Cameron really got to Brown. "I've only been in this job 5 days" -- are you kidding me? I don't buy that PMQs makes a significant difference electorally, but if it does, this has to be a very good day for David Cameron.

[Andrew Woodman]

As I said yesterday neil, this is a man who believes in only one consensus. His!!

Ming cracks a joke. Wonders never cease.

[simon]

Brown blows it! The pathetic 'i've only been in the job for 5 days' will come back to haunt. He comes across as too sholarly hence dull. DC actually performed very well! YAY!!! About time too. Cameron 8 out of 10, Brown 5 out of ten. As to DC's last question, is the Speaker trying to torpedo DC's momentum? Brown was struggling up to that point.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

EdR - I agree. It really does show you what Labour will miss now Blair has gone. I always thought he performed well at PMQs. To say that he's only been in the job 5 days is frankly pathetic. he's been after the job for a decade or more.

[Oberon Houston]

Would it be fair to say he ended up agreeing to Cameron's demands?

Campbell gave a great answer to the "door is always open" from Brown.... "more of a trap door" (laughter)

[Neil Reddin]

Yep, DC's got this one in the bag.

Job done, for this week.

[Oberon Houston]

John Reid on the floor now...!

[Jonathan Sheppard]

The speaker is awful!

[Oberon Houston]

...coming to Brown's rescue. oh ha ha ha

[Andrew Woodman]

Rob Wilson has him on the run now. Bad day for Brown this is.

[Richard Lowe]

If this is our Prime Minister, god help us all. "But but but but but"

[Oberon Houston]

bu bu but ...ca ca ca can I i I telll, ca can I tell the Rt Hon Gentleman...

Awful... Brilliant!

[Traditional Tory]

How fascinating >yawn< .

I think you'll find the less obsessive among us have been working rather than watching non-events on the idiot box.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

He certainly doesn't seem to like it when the opposition benches get a bit rowdy. It certainly seems to put him off his stride. If I was writing Brown's report for his first PMQ's it would be - Could do better!

[Graham D'Amiral]

Very weak performance from Brown, and if anything the attempt by the former home secretary John Reid to come to his rescue makes him look even weaker. The give me a chance i've only been PM for 5 days plea has to be one of the most pathetic replies any Prime minister has given to a leader of the opposition.

[Ken Stevens]

Not really a subject for DC to get his teeth into, given that national security is a shared concern (albeit with differences on detail rather than primary aim).

I look forward to future PMQs on topics where there are philosophical differences between parties. Perhaps DC will consistently be shown to be lighter on his feet in debate than GB.

Yes, very lame for GB to hide behind only having been 5 days in post. Jacqui Smith managed creditably with regard to the terrorist attempts, without bleating similarly, when chucked in the deep end upon being appointed Home Secretary.

[Andrew Woodman]

To James Gray, 'I think he would agree with me that the Defence Secretary is doing an excellent job'

I doubt you could get anyone other than members of the Labour Party and Des Browne's family and friends who would agree with that statement. It really does show that the man can't accept reality.

[Cllr Tony Sharp]

JimJam, I understand and accept your point. I largely feel the same way, that there are too many people who go out of their way to find fault with the leadership.

But I do feel it is important that when any valid concerns are raised they are not lumped in with those contributors you were referring to. That was the reason for my comment. I would like to see much more reasoned objectivity on this site from contributors and less faux fury.

[HF]

Well done DC. Brown was all over the place, stammering etc. His isolationist policies such as not turning up to security briefings were exposed.

[Bored of Disloalty]

So Traditional Tory you are so busy not watching but yet you still find time to comment on here. Fascinating . . .

[Adam]

DC should have stayed away from security - no political gain in going on about an issue which is not really partisan. Should have gone after him on pensions and the damage Brown has personally done.

[malcolm]

Thanks chaps. It's been good reading your comments as the event too place.

[Cllr Tony Sharp]

I must say the response from the PM concerning the Alastair Darling quote was shambolic. There is nothing about ID cards that makes them any more relevant today than when Darling made his comments. Good, statesmanlike performance by Cameron today. He was well prepared.

For the PM to consider that public pronouncements by Hizb-ut Tahrir do not constitute evidence and therefore no action from the government needs to be taken; but that all people should be roped into the ID card and database state because of the actions such pronouncements inspire, shows the warped mentality of this Labour administration. The assault on privacy continues under the new Stalin.

[Steve]

Apart from the Conservatives Every voice i heard in the 'Hoose' was Scottish, still, i suppose thats appropriate, it is the Scottish parliament South after all!.

Brown is a gibbering buffoon, an amateurish clown.

[MHDH]

Andrew. My stepson is a serving army officer who is being deployed to Afghanistan later this year. I asked him about the army's general view on Browne and he said that we was actually relatively well respected unlike some of his predecessors of both political persuasions.

I think his dual role is wholly wrong, vut we should not be blinkered to public reality just because the person wears a different coloured rosette.

[Patrick Cusworth]

PMQs this afternoon provided an interesting insight into Gordon Brown’s character. Stumbling over his over his words and looking increasingly haggard and desperate, you’d be forgiven for thinking that this was a PM fighting for his political life than a leader fresh from unanimous election (speaking of which, it’s been a long time since Ming has come across more impressively than another party leader). Cameron put the PM under pressure again and again to justify the disgraceful two-year delay in banning extremist hate groups.

Brown just doesn’t have Blair’s levels of confidence, humour and charisma – all vital ingredients to survive in the pressure-cooker atmosphere of Prime Ministers Questions.

Perhaps Gordon should start wearing one of those “WWTD” bracelets to keep him in the right frame of mind in such situations.

“What Would Tony Do?”

[Tory T]

Editor judging by the consensus in the comments today it was a bit more than a "narrow" win for DC!

I missed it so looking forward to the replay on Sky active

[Traditional Tory]

there are too many people who go out of their way to find fault with the leadership.

People find fault with the leadership because there is plenty of fault to find.

Like most normal people I am working, albeit from home, but I caught the last few minutes of this, and the discussion.

Michael Heseltine, hardly a rabid right-winger, just said 'I think Cameron won on points narrowly' so I think we'll give greater weight to his opinion than to the overheated twitterings of the usual suspects.

I see that some boffin's analysis of the audience panel's approval ratings shows 'promise there for Mr Brown, but there's still some work to do'

[Watervole]

Well done David Cameron - it appears we have the first signs of genuine opposition.

Gordon Brown failed to provide a single answer to any questions and was on the defensive throughout. His attitude to Hizb ut-Tahrir was shameful. He seems instead content to fund multi-faith organisations instead of doing something real about our security. His answer to everything is ID cards - which when you consider this government's record on IT projects is a recipe for disaster - we might as well hand all our intimate details to the terrorists on a plate.

Gordon's response on the acceptability of EDS' 106 year repayment schedule is equally atrocious. When was the last time any of us got a deal like that? Certainly not from the tax man. His comment that this was a standard commercial transaction was also laughable. I would have given my eye-teeth in business to have terms like that.

Gordon's final excuse will come to haunt him. Only 5 days in the job - pull the other one Gordon, you've been the second string in the country for 10 years!

Way to go DC. Gordon's so weak he needs John Reid to come to his defence! Keep on the facts - the con man is unable to answer.

[Graeme Archer]

Haven't seen it yet. Did the Fist Fail to Clunk then?

Would prefer if all commentators stopped referring to PMQs as a blood sport. I saw some Labour guy quoted the other day saying Brown would "kill" Cameron, and CH used a "Cameron draws blood" headline recently. DC and the Clunky Fister are engaged in oratory for the purpose of maximising their electoral support. No-one dies and it feels to me (no doubt I'm wrong, or at least unpopular, I am usually at least one of the two) unnecessarily unpleasant to use the imagery of death.

[Realpolitic]

Well done Watevole. I wonder how many people outside CCHQ can spell Hizb ut-Tahrir as well as you can?

Like the editor said, a narrow win for DC. Nothing to get an orgasm about

[Edison Smith]

Very impressed by Cameron today.

He spoke easily and well and raised an interesting issue about that extremist group, whereas Brown often stuttered and his response, "I've only been in the job five days" seriously backfired.

The Labour benches were rather muted and Brown was heckled throughout. He just can't hold an audience on the palm of his hand like Blair could.

John Reid answering his defense questions for him was 'help' he probably did not need!

Cameron's relaxed yet serious opposition compared to Brown's hesitant, mechanical responses reminded me of that quote about Cameron being a man of the "digital age" and Brown being stuck in the past.

[powellite]

I think Graeme Archer has a point. I hadn't thought about it before, but the headline on the Sky News website is "Cameron fails to draw Brown blood." Apart from the fact that I think he did, in a metaphorical sense, it's not the most edifying way of putting it.