The £40,000 scribble

The new Tory logo (top) cost £40,000 to develop according to today's Times (although the scribble looks much better in colour than what we saw yesterday).  The idea for the oak logo and the actual design you see on the left originally came from Conservative Home visitors - earlier in the summer - and all for free.

Comments

[Barnet Boy]

What a waste! It will appear as a smudge on ballot papers and has nothing Conservative about it.

[Not-so-apathetic]

Well done! I think the new logo is a breath of fresh air. The old torch was overpowering and hugely intimidating (a bit like the leader at the time), but the new tree is something I can get behind. Well done, David, for making your party look accessible and open.

As for the price tag: pfff. I'm sure people complained at the price tag when Michaelangelo painted St Pauls too. Now, it's a national treasure. Get over it.

PS - I've never voted, and to be honest, from the often rude and derogatory comments by members of this party about their own leadership, I really have to wonder what their definition of "loyalty" is ....

[Russell Long]

I was clearly under the mistaken apprehension that it was for the 'Conservative' party, and that 'conservative' didn't mean 'rebranding on an hourly basis to match the latest fad'.

Yet another reason to shift my vote.

[Mike Christie]

Interestingly, having googled 'Perfect day consultants' I found these people who are financial consultants and possibly entirely unconnected to this.

However, I was amused that their logo is also a chalky green child's drawing looking thing...

[Sparky]

Here's a link to the latest version of the new design:

Click here for latest version of new Conservative logo

[malcolm]

'Michaelangelo painted St Pauls'.Er, don't think so 'not so apathetic', he died almost 200 years before it was built. I don't think he ever came to England either.

[andy (would i ever vote tory)]

People who make comments like 'I'd have done it for £20 or my kids could do better' show they know f*** all about design and probably wouldn't want to know more about a company on the basis of its style, the same kind of people who thinking only classical painting should be in the Turner prize.
It has a child like, friendly quality, and I think has a more mass appeal contradicting theat the conservatives are all about the rich toffs who couldn't care less about africa and the environment. A change of logo doesnt change your politics though.
It looks to me as if the tories are trying to appeal to those who don't vote and good on them cos Labour dont give a s*** if anybody voted cos its suits them if less do.

[Russell Long]

I think (at least I hope) he meant St Peter's Basilica in Rome.

Then again he could just have been a student who's just left school with As in art, history and geography.

[Richard Holloway]

All I can say is, if they don't include EXTREMELY accurate image paths in any digital package sent out to activists (so it can be placed on top of an image easily in PhotoShop) it's going to be a bitch to try and incorporate into any publication design other than one with a plain white background...

[Strangely Relaxed]

I'm enjoyng the Single Transferable Post along the lines of, 'I am soooo not a Conservative, but this new Logo is totally triffic and I will sooo now totally vote Conservative, and how dare anyone ever say anything critical of Dave, whom I er dislike and do not work for. No, really'.

[Alastair (ex tory voter)]

I write as an ex Tory voter who is waiting for some sensible comments from Mr Cameron et all on the EU fiasco. A new (and appaling) logo appears to be more important than winning their core voters back. Good luck Mr C - you'll need it.

[Nic]

It amuses me no end. However, I do have sympathy with the modernisers as they are fully aware of how bad the cultural perception of the Tory Party has become. I say cultural as opposed to political, as the Tories don't have a problem with policy (as per previous focus groups, people typically rate particular policies very highly, only to reverse their support once they found out that they were Tory policies). The reason why the Tories have been so unpopular has been due to image, to people's perception of the party and the 'average' party member. So, in that context, it is important for the Tories to have a good image and that does come down to the 'small things' such as logo and typesetting. It's just the wrong logo has been chosen - it's naff, plain and simple.

[Mark Fulford]

Interestingly, having googled 'Perfect day consultants'...

After some creative searching I found them.

[Matthew Mills]

Congratulations, to the Conservative Party. I can't understand what the fuss is about. £40k to encapsulate the positive change to the conservative party is cheap. £40k would not even pay for the press attention they have had let alone be an exsessive investment in the Conservative brand... Money well spent, Scribble? the same small minded people would probably say that the Coke brand is just a glass bottle, Apple is just, well an apple half eaten, Microsoft just a flag etc., etc. Get real, we live in a world where image is everything, as Cherie's hairdressing bill would confirm!

[Tony]

An oak represents stability, timelessness, growth and strength. A squiggle represents impermanence, haste, immaturity and weakness.

Which set of messages do the Conservatives wish to get over?

[Les]

It seems to me that the Conservatives are now developing the 'Picasso' approach to politics - Everything is there but not necessarily in the right place.

[Helyn Clack]

I think the new logo is just fine, down to earth, attractive and instantly recognisable.

[Mike Christie]

After some creative searching I found them.

And it seems they also did the creative work for DCs leadership campaign...

[Bruce Standing]

The vagueness of the design and meaning suits the Conservative Party, with it's vague'indications' of intentions. What will the design look like in winter months? Just a squiggly blue line?

[Peter]

Is it a silly question to ask why we aren't currently being given the right to vote as party members on something as permanent and controversial as changing the party logo rather than instead being asked only to give a meaningless Yes vote (i.e. you basically have no choice but to vote for it in the finest traditions of Stalin) to Built to Last Five Minutes!

Also with regard to Build to Last Five Minutes why is that this important policy document is an absolute masterpiece of boring presentation with no graphics, pictures or easy and snappy readability when surely our policies and understanding them are far more important to most of the general public than the party logo.

It seems clear that David Cameron thinks he can win the next election solely by changing all existing longstanding Conservative policies and branding to try to appeal to the floating and dithering uncommitted Independent and Daily Express reader without any regard to a possible meltdown in support for him and the party by its own long term activists! What about the possible very real danger that some of these people may instead start voting UKIP?

I already know several members of my own Association who are now considering that very course of action.

[Vic Tory]

A wonderful design. Just the thing to propel us to victory. Spending only £40k on the design shows how we know how to spend carefully.The electorate need have no concerns about our ability to reduce income tax while spending more on defence, spending the same on the NHS, and be able to leave the Common Market without adversely affecting our economy, and to make Britain GREAT again.

[James Maskell]

The DC campaign did not give across honesty at all. How did Perfect Day get the logo to suggest anything apart from two blocks of different blues?

CCO is bleeding Associations dry. This is costing us memberships and its costing us manpower. It hurts our campaigning force and then hurts our fighting funds. We cant campaign as much and we lose votes due to the money not being spent by CCO on policy development.

Afliech wondered why I think this logo change is going to cost us the election...well, there you go...it hurts local Associations which have to fight the elections. That, my friend, is the key to winning elections...

[William Norton]

What is most distressing is that every comment here has focussed on minor aspects whilst missing the most important fact in this story, viz I still haven't been paid my £50,000 for launching the competition here.

Still, I suppose the good news is that, having gone public with the not-bad estimate of £50,000 it clearly strengthened CCO's negotiating hand in forcing down the price. If you're reading this, Francis, as a further sign of my commitment to our party I'll settle for a cut of the £10,000 saving. Think of it as sharing the proceeds of growth....

Actually, when all's said and done, the new logo doesn't look too bad, and is almost certainly a bargain considering what these exercises can cost. What I'm not clear about - and this is a point Iain Dale and I flagged up right at the start of this logo change business - is what the new image will look like reprinted on a ballot paper, especially alongside the Labour Rose, the Lib Dem Parrot and whatever else from whoever else.

Could someone out there email through a mock-up to go on this site so we can see what it would look like?

[Alexander]

We need to have a new design each year, a few months after we elect each new Leader.Them people will know we are ready to move with the times. Now that we have come up with a new design it is time to start thnking about a new Leader.

[James Maskell]

I guess you just imagine the Welsh one... The problem is that that looks like a rather light green...it might come up more like grey!

[Steve Rivers]

it is awful. Can we ask for our money back?We are the United Kingdom Conservative Party. The party of Liverpool, Peel, Disraeli, Salisbury, Churchill, Thatcher not Gypo United.

Can we ask for our money back?
I am a young conservative and stayed loyal when Labour was the in party. I voted for Cameron but looks like I made the wrong choice. Looks like the party I admired and was proud to be a member a party of strong, virtous leadership and goverment has turned into a weak, 60's gypy vegetable. They might as well change the name as well to Camey's Libs Dem.
This is the last straw I doubt I can support a person who likes brocolli.
Good luck for the future I'll be handing in my membership card my party is now dead.

[D. Ternent]

It looks like something the Liberals or Green party would have. Nice and soft, great for a school.

Its sad but it seems the Tory party has gone soft with its policies and image.

A very sad day - the end of the party I was knew, and I'm only 35years old.

[Peter]

Responding to Steve Rivers interesting message re his disillusionment as a Young Conservative with Cameron's policy of ditching almost every traditional Conservative Party value:-

Steve will you be joining any other party when you hand in your Conservative Party membership card? Perhaps UKIP?

[Derek]

Like the majority, I don't like it. I also believe it is a waste of money. I doubt it will change any voters minds. It won't put me off as much as if they don't have the right policies, though I am upset to see so much money wasted at a time when the party has had to reduce staffing levels to the bone.

[G-MaN Wild]

Ohh some people on here dont half moan and groan. Typically Tory behaviour though. Untill you all get a grip and welcome change, we will forever be in opposition.

Long reign Cameron and our Oak Tree. Its actually a very nice contempory design. Yes it could of been cheaper, but hey, there are some corporate businesses that pay millions to re-design their brand image.

[Victoria Parker]

What an absolute mess.

For a start, why was it considered that a tree was the best symbol for the Conservatives, and secondly, why doesn't David Cameron join the Green Party? His incessant preoccupation with the environment is becoming tiresome with a lot of core Tory voters.

For £40,000 you would think the money Conservative members contribute to the Party would be spent on a logo that actually looked like what it is meant to be representing.

Why does Cameron want to change the Conservatives so much? If he really dislikes traditional Conservatism he should go and set up another party, like the Oak Tree Party or something. Changing for change's sake is pointless. He should be busy ripping the current divided Labour Party apart.

Rant over!

[G-MaN Wild]

Victoria - The Oak Tree was enjoyed on this site as a favourite, hardly all down to Dave now is it? He's improved on the orginal idea however as it did look rather fogey.

[Victoria Parker]

Having only just visited this site for the first time today I was unaware of the oak tree's popularity on this site, but at the same time was aware it wasn't all down to Cameron of course.

In fact I prefer the old one - at least the tree was blue.

[christina speight]

Tam Large - "Dave and his crew seem to be hallucinating much of the time".

Do you actually MEAN that because elsewhere on the internet that's EXACTLY what is being said - with lots of claimed evidence?

The torch said there's a fight we've got to win. This just says "Hug a tree / hoodie / or something cuddly". I wouldn't get out of bed for that!

[Councillor Bob Allen, Bolton Lancs]

The local press asked me for a comment today on the new logo. I was disappointed but not too surprised to find no reference to the logo on the official Conservative website.
I told the press what I thought. The logo is secondary to real party direction and policies. It is expensive and easily forgotton.

[steve rivers]

In response to Peter's question. No I will not be joining another party and certainly not the UKIP. I will just become a lost vote for David Cameron. I am all for change and reaching out to voters but at the expense of fundamentally changing Tory principles. The role of Government is to govern; protect it's citizens, manage finances and safeguard it's institutions not paint the town green.
I live in a marginal, for a long time a "true blue" seat and I certainly won;t be trying to persuade my friends and acquaintances to vote for any green party. I agree with G-Man Wild why does Cameron want to change the party so much and destroy it's principles? I want strong leadership and government and probably so do all of us.
There was an old oak tree in my town which for 100s of years marked the centre of England. The local Tory council cut it down to make way for a roundabout.

[changetowin]

Nice to see that we finally have a new logo. The one approved by Liam Fox was vaguely fascistic. It's easy to moan and even easier to forget that it was the carpers on this site who chose an oak tree!!! As for the money - design costs money. Welcome to the real world guys!!!

[Christian Walker]

It is not that I dislike it but am I now also a member of the Woodland Trust? - not bad but certainly not 40k good

[Ian Guiver]

Wishy -washy, unclear and insubstantial; The agency obviously understood their client.

[Chris Ryder]

According to Matthew Mills branding and image is the 'in thing' with politics, oh is that right? well to me it suggests a cynical attempt to appease an easy vote from anywhere with a huge dollop of shallowness inspired by the fall out from ten years of Blair's gobsh*ting, so to see the Tory party I once distinctively knew and which once stood out on it's own without even needing reference to branding or logos go to this present wishy washy mush being slopped up, I as a voter am more convinced each day you haven't got it anymore, so maybe then the tree is just perfect to suit your current status because is it not the case that while trees can indeed promote growth they can equally like the tree that once stood in my garden rot & die off, so you best beware even if you did spend £40k on it.

[Ian Lewis, Wallasey, Wirral]

Ermm...excuse me but we are a national organisation with around 10m supporters. £40k on a rebrand is small fry. Local authorities spend shed loads on logos, the multi nationals spend millions. Are we a professional player or not? Beauty is, once again, in the eye of the beholder and the overwhelming message is consistent - we are changing.

Having said that, I agree with Cllr. Iain Lindley, let's see how it looks on a ballot paper...

[A Hill]

That the logo is green, the colour of Islam and the 'scribble' vaguely resembles Arabic script could cause serious problems. The left hand portion looks a little like the Arabic word for God. Walls ran into a similar problem with their 'heart' logo.

The main problem with this logo is that is very poorly realised and conveys nothing. Labour must be glad it has stuck with the red rose.

[Jake Lowes]

wow!
Have I just joined Greenpeace or is this farmers weekly?
Oh no! Just when I thought there was a bright blue light at the end of that Labour tunnel.
What is it? Who are we? I'm confused - who am I meant to be voting for at the next election a Tory or Green?

If this is the best our leadership could come up with I think Gordon has nothing to worry about.

[Peter]

The key thing to understand about cuddly old Dave is that he is not a conviction politician in any form and he is not bound by principle of any kind. Instead he is the ultimate marketing man like Blair not fettered by the past in any way who will just keep repositioning the product until he thinks he has found something that will attract more voters than any other party.

In today's sound byte and media led culture this cynical and short termist approach may very well pay off, especially and not least due to the Labour party now tearing themselves to bits and whoever eventually succeeds Blair almost certainly still lacking direction and popular appeal in precisely the same way as all Thatcher's successors in the Conservative party.

So the Conservatives may well win the next election by default and regardless of what Cameron does anyway but the Conservative party that is elected will not have any of the policies (apart perhaps from on public spending) that most longstanding Conservative support.

Take transport for instance where I think you will find that one of New Labour's most disastrous policies economically over the last 9 years has been to totally fail to continue to develop core bottleneck areas of the uk road network out of strong political dogma that more roads merely means more cars (a dogma not supported in almost all other EU countries who have been building roads like mad).

Yet I think if you look at current and potential Tory voters most of them still support private mobility and the private motor car and that it is only Guardian readers who actually believe we should all be forced on to public transport. But where does Cameron stand on road building - well to the left of Jonathan Porritt essentially. No wonder he wants a tree to hug as the party's new logo!

[Richard]

Would all those who are calling this design "modern" please explain what they mean by this? Does modern = scruffy?

And since when did "modern" automatically = good? New Labour were "modern" once.

[Richard]

"Nice to see that we finally have a new logo. The one approved by Liam Fox was vaguely fascistic. It's easy to moan and even easier to forget that it was the carpers on this site who chose an oak tree!!!"

What was fascistic about Fox's chosen logo? I confess I haven't seen it so a link would be useful.

And yes, we did suggest an oak tree. But I doubt anybody had that awful squiggle in mind.

I am genuinely interested to know why you think this logo will attract new voters? What exactly is so appealing about it? To me it just looks messy.

[Richard]

Oh hold on, the old logo was the one approved by Fox! I don't think the arm was appropriate but I saw nothing wrong with the torch on its own.

[Ian Williamson]

The trouble is, we needed to be told what it was intended to represent. In other words, of itself it conveyed very little and suggests a lack of dynamism. At least a forward-leaning torch logo with the colours of the national flag did somehow suggest 'action' and relate to the UK, what's left of it.

[christina speight]

Somebody above - can't retrieve it instantly - wrote that Cameron is like a very bad PR man. Well according to a Telegraph business news columnist that's exactly what he was - a very bad PR man - described as a "bag carrier" (for ITV I think). It's the only non - politics job he's ever had.

WHEN will the Cameroons here realise the dreadful mistake that has been made in appointing this half-baked man as leader. One of his local constituents tells that it is quite noticeable when he is on a "high", he is brilliant, and equally noticeable when he is on a "downer".

[Perdix]

Christina Spiteful's at it again! Christina, you seem to have given up all hope that anything good will ever happen in this nation.Why don't you emigrate to the hills of Montana? There, there have lots of guns and tinned food and shoot any government employee who comes on their property. And take Chad with you, but put him on the next hill - he can't have a political relationship with anyone for more than one day.

[Perdix]

Christina Spiteful's at it again! Christina, you seem to have given up all hope that anything good will ever happen in this nation.Why don't you emigrate to the hills of Montana? There, there have lots of guns and tinned food and shoot any government employee who comes on their property. And take Chad with you, but put him on the next hill - he can't have a political relationship with anyone for more than one day.

[John Moss]

In the interests of science, I have just taken the jpeg image and converted it to greyscale to see how it will look on a leaflet and on a ballot paper in the 1.3cm square box that you get.

It actually looks OK on the banner of a leaflet. It is best reversed, ie the tree is white on a mid grey background. I suspect most association wil use it in this form as colour leaflets are not affordable for most.

However, in a little box like you get on a ballot paper, it is unrecognisable.

It actually looks like somebody has voted, and then changed their minds and crossed it out.

This is serious because I doubt the Electoral Commission will allow this to be used as it it will cause confusion for those counting ballots.

[Pete]

What an awful logo. At least the torch represented illumination and its forward thrust pointed to the future - it had a meaning.

This looks like a demented child's scribbling and will be likened to the deadwood party. Trees by their nature are stationary, solitary, and have limited utility. They only become particularly useful when chopped down and the wood is used. I'm not convinced that's what the Party means. PLEASE reconsider this inappropriate piece of rubbish. Or do you have to wait until Lady T puts her handkerchief over it before you realise it's utter ineffectuality?

[Jarod Weaver]

I've just seen the new party logo. Nothing this prat Cameron is capable of can now surprise me. He is a private eye spoof, a Tory version of the trendy vicar. Does he not realise that almost all newspapers now call him "Dave", without reference to his surname! They don't need a cartoon. Francis "feel my pain" Maude described the old logo as "too strident". Lord Tebbett described it as a bunch of broccoli, sorry it's a grass stain. As for the Dragon's den!!!! Goodnight.

[matt wright]

Concerned about what this will look like in B&W on a ballot paper. Will it look like a scribble or mistake on the paper?

[James Maskell]

See John Moss's comment a few messages up. Your concerns have a basis.

[Kevin Davis]

I wonder how many people really know what our logo was to start with?

Is this important?

I am not sure we should be getting too worked up about this, except to note that most of the businesses that try to mess around with their logo end up going into decline.

Did anyone vote for New Labour because they got the red rose?

[James Maskell]

Why should we feel the need to compare ourselves to Labour constantly? Why cant we just do what we think is right as a Party instead of pandering to how Labour used to do it a la party logo changes, policy changes.

Why cant we just be Conservative?

[Kevin Davis]

Having looked at this again I am not convinced it is an oak tree.

Isn't it a weeping willow?

[christina speight]

Kevin Davis - "Isn't it a weeping willow" It isn't the willows that should be weeping it's the poor Tory members watching their leaders obsessed with trivia and logos when nobody has the slightest idea what they believe in.

And THAT includes the coward Perdix hiding cravenly behind a pseudoym and being rude about people's names - to do that is the mark of a juvenile mind.

I haven't given up hope for this country though there's no hope in a Cameroon Tory party

Interesting Perdix selects Chad and me and ignores the dozens of others on this thread who express despair at Cameron and his antics.

[Ian Jones]

Maybe Dave will drop the name Conservative next, as he seems to be dropping everything else to do with Conservatism. When we need a strong opposition to offer voters an alternative to the shallow 'eye-catching initiatives' of Bliar, Dave continually blathers on about how we should all greener. Maybe he could recycle some good traditional Conservative policies instead of wasting £40,000 on a stupid logo that looks like its been drawn by a 5 year old.

[James Maskell]

Thanks christina...encourage Perdix to pick on more of us...hehehe

[Richard Willis]

Its funny, I think this new logo is pathetic but then I read Christina Speight's latest outpouring and all of a sudden Cameron seems quite sane again!

However, can we please have a decent logo that at least looks like it has been conceived by an adult!?

[Andrew Ian Dodge]

It does look like a wepping willow. Surely Dave just gave his children some crayons and used that? $40k for something a 5 year old could have done; nice work if you can get it.

[Peter]

Just wanted to 100% concur with Jarod Weaver that nothing the prat Cameron is capable of can now surprise me and that why do all the papers refer to him only as Dave.

The tragedy is that he may well achieve the superstar fame which he so craves at any cost (even throwing the baby out with the bathwater and selling all of the family silver) by becoming prime minister only for it to slowly dawn on the people that elected him that the party they have elected is now Conservative in name only. And that of course assumes anyway that Dave hasn't had the party rebranded as The Tree Huggers by that stage!

[Steve Langley]

I understand the rational for a new logo (although I am not convinced it is necessary). But this new logo is poor to put it mildly. Surely we could come up with something better. Something that is stronger and has the red, blue and white (especially blue) of the Union Flag. This design looks like the logo of some small green party from the continent. The Conservative Party can and should do better. I am for David's pro-environmental policies to be sure, but this is terrible. Perhaps he should replace poor Ming over at the Liberals and bring back his showdow foreign minster - who will slice and dice Brown at the PMs question time!

[tapestry]

New Labour are being followed by the Not Conservatives.

Advertising is full of the impossible. Dancing cars. Flying humans. Flying cars. Self driving cars. Unless it can do the impossible, it's not up to level. Reality is no longer good enough. It's all Harry Potter's fault. Everything has to fly now.

All we wanted was a dead boring picture of an oak tree - as boring as we are - and we would have been happy. But we've been given a magic one, an impossible one - one that appears out of the squiggle of a pen, flies in from the left, settles for a moment and then flies away right, leaving a childlike image that acnnot possibly be the logo of a political party seeking power.

The main idea has been achieved - impossibility. This cannot possibly be the Conservatives logo. We are the Not Conservatives.

[Steve Langley]

Okay, so she wasnt perfect but Baroness Thatcher was the best Tory PM since Sir Winston Churchill. I am damn tired of him disagreeing with and apologizing for her postions and policies. If he is that unhappy with her why is he a Conservative? I support his views on the EU and the environmental. Sometimes we do have to be pragmatic to get elected, lets face it. But the is the point that, except for the EU, there is no idological difference between him and Tony Blair. Is he a Conservative or what? Next thing you know he'll want to change our name to the Moderates like in Sweden and change our colours to pink and green he is at it. Im surprised the tree trunk is blue. But new is always good you know!

[christina speight]

Richard Willis - "I read Christina Speight's latest outpouring and all of a sudden Cameron seems quite sane again!".

Cameroons don't like my "outpourings" because they challenge the very ethos of Cameron himself. I have repeatedly asked for some supporter to tell the blog WHAT Cameron believes in but the only answer I have ever got is Cameroons attacking me for pointing out that Emperor has no clothes - and that disaster lies ahead.

I'm not alone here . Try (from overnight) ---
"If he is that unhappy with [Margaret Thatcher] why is he a Conservative?" -
"We are the Not Conservatives." -
" [if Cameron wins it will] slowly dawn on the people that elected him that the party they have elected is now Conservative in name only" -
"Why cant we just be Conservative?" -
"Nothing this prat Cameron is capable of can now surprise me. He is a private eye spoof, a Tory version of the trendy vicar. " -
"but the Conservative party that is elected will not have any of the policies - - - that most longstanding Conservatives support."

[Roger Baker]

Quite honestly I think that the new logo is rather good. It is symbolic of England and Conservative principles. It is modern and it is memorable.

There are always those who dislike change of any sort. We are a living vibrabnt party and the very things that we stand for are encompassed in the new Logo - lets's go for it!

[Huggertree]

How about a spinning wheel as an alternative? Wouldn't it be more apt?

[Sean Ferrer]

The new logo is unnervingly similar to one I'd had in my mind as appropriate for a reinvented Conservative party. The tree will take some getting used to, but the typeface used is modern, fresh and a darn sight friendlier than the dreadful old logo that looks like a Soviet-style flag. Thumbs up - and this is coming from a Labour party member.

[changetowin]

Well said Roger. Perhaps the carpers preffered the totalitarian arm chosen by Fox...

[Ted]

Roger, Changetown

The carpers have driven me into agreement - with the pro-squiggles. I can now see that the national squiggle is a Pedunculate oak, the Welsh one has a suggestion of extra height and different form of the sessile Oak and Scots one could be a well grown and mature Scots Pine. After only a day I am converted!

In a year no-one will remember we ever had doubts - except for those who still don't like Women's Hour being at ten in the morning, miss Listen with Mother and feel children's TV has gone downhill since Larry the Lamb (oh dear perhaps the latter is true?)

[You couldn't make this stuff up...]

True story... a developer in our District this week offered to pay £40,000 to remove a large, mature tree that is stopping the development of his site.

Wonder what gave him the idea?

[Marcus]

The NAZI's also worshipped oak trees.

The change from the symbolic ideals of "liberty" and "freedom" to full-blown "national socialist" worship of nature is almost complete in the Tory party.

Hitler would have been proud!

[eustace]

How about an evergreen, shallow rooted CONifer instead of an oak tree (if that is what it is)?

[Trueblue]

Why can't we come up with a design as good as the Liberal Democrat Bird of Liberty?
Why do they always have to come up with the best ideas?

[Peter]

Eustace you have it right with the shallow rooted conifer with few roots - that is exactly what Dave's control of the party is about

[Peter]

Christina,

Rest assured you are not alone in your views. Your views are now shared by the vast majority of traditional Conservatives including many of those who mistakenly voted for Cameron (of which I was fortunately not one having by then already rumbled him as an entirely unprincipled politician intent only on gaining high office).

Most of those who have posted positive comments about the GREEN oak tree logo on here are out and out careerists intent only on climbing to the top of the same greasy party pole as Mr Cameron, whatever the cost in terms of their own honesty, integrity and any principles they may once have possessed.

There will always be unthinking camp followers and lapdogs of any new clique as history has time again shown.

[Wallenstein]

Personally I would have chosen a dead Christmas tree poking out of a fly-blown dustbin.

Noticable how nearly all the pro-"Dave" "usual suspects" back this pitiful example of change for change's sake, while the growing number of contributors capable of thinking for themselves dismiss it as yet another example of Cameroon lunacy.

An encouraging sign.

Pip!Pip!

[christina speight]

Thanks Peter and the majority of posters who have seen the emptiness of Cameron and the disaster that will befall the party unless it comes to its senses.

The blithering tree is a shallow empty issue. The oak-tree is hackneyed, and lacks inspiration - but it's a triviality. I could resign myself to that but not to the transformation of the Party into a LibDem clone.

As for sticks and stones they break none of my bones. When you've fought for the party - usually successfully - for as long as I have, anonymous creeps like Perdix with childish jibes are the only ones that get my goat.

Unlike Jack Straw I'm used to hecklers - even once at Speakers' Corner. Marble Arch for the party - OUCH !!!

[Peter]

The change from the Blue olympic style torch to the childlike green party tree issue may appear a trivial one and yet in some respects it actually summarises so completely succintly everything that the emptiness of Cameronesque party rebranding and repositioning is about. It is itself a direct symbolic representation of that emptiness.

What is perhaps even more significant is that in this era of increased low cost online democracy Dave does not even choose to give his party members a choice on their new symbol or indeed if they want to change that symbol at all and yet he insists that we go to the trouble of giving him a Yes tick vote for the meaningless politically correct hyperbole that is contained in Built To Last. The fact that he then tries to encourage us to conduct that vote via another ripoff Britain premium rate telephone line number or premium rate text number, rather than without financial penalty by post or on the internet only adds insult to injury.

[Marcus]

It seems the conservative party never understood the words of Churchill and Thatcher who fought against fascism for the establishment, "on impregnable rocks, the rights of the individual."

Instead, you follow an idiot like Blair -who has absolutely no guiding principles and is a pragmatist. Sometimes he is for individual rights - but it is just a coincidence when he is. If he thinks that imprisonment without trial is possible, and achieves his aims, he does it. Hitler would approve.

The NAZI’s were always LEFT-WING that is why they called themselves "socialists".

Maybe Tories need to re-read their Hayek.

[Steve Crawford]

I love it. It reminds me of the face of a new VW car, at first you think 'Whaaat, whaats this?!' But then it grow on you. It's subtle, gentle yet implies great strength and endurance. David Cameron needs to appeal to gentler concerns, and much more environmental traditions rooted within 'conserve-atism' in this age ofthe early signs of a rampant climate change.

He could prove to be the Churchill of our day on this issue - the call from the wilderness that grows to inherit the program of low carbon solutions to face the 'threatening storm' of climate chaos.
The oak synbol is smart. It's attractive. It's honest and very promising.

[UKout]

"He could prove to be the Churchill of our day on this issue - the call from the wilderness that grows to inherit the program of low carbon solutions to face the 'threatening storm' of climate chaos." etc.

Cobblers. The guy is a con-artist and he wants the party to be the same. Also he wants the semblance of power within a UK that is a vassal state of you know what.

[UKout]

In previous post I meant to say:

All he wants is the semblance of power within a UK that is a vassal state of you know what.

[Marcus]

"He could prove to be the Churchill of our day on this issue - the call from the wilderness that grows to inherit the program of low carbon solutions to face the 'threatening storm' of climate chaos."

Yeah. Let him just walk over the rights of the individual in order to do it. Global warming is a religious cult. The proponents of it don't care if the science is based on computer models. Scientific publications conflict on predictions. They predict a 3C rise in temperature by the end of the century at worst. Humans are only responsible for 0.3% of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The hypothesis that the warming is human driven is not even near proven.

The best evidence that the Global Warming lobby is completely nuts is that they are now talking about the "decarbonization" of the UK. Which just goes to prove they don't understand the first thing about science.

Just keep repeating the mantra though that all scientists agree and that the evidence is irrefutable - eventually a brain-washed and scientifically uneducated population will believe it.

[christina speight]

Steve Crawford (1734) - "David Cameron needs to appeal to gentler concerns, and much more environmental traditions rooted within 'conserve-atism' in this age of the early signs of a rampant climate change."

So he wants to appeal "to gentler concerns" in a big tough world when terrorists see nothing wrong in wanting to kill you. "Gentler concerns" are private concerns. As for the "rampant climate change" this is a 'maybe'.

Firstly nobody has any evidence that it is not all due to extreme sunspot activity which is ending now.

Secondly it only takes a major volcanic eruption to trigger a new ice-age and we're due for one in Indonesia any day let alone the mother of eruptions in Yellowstone Park which could well wipe out life on earth (hope all have made their peace with their maker!)

Thirdly the UK's TOTAL CO2 emissions are only a tenth of the GROWTH of those in China and a 29th of China + India. If Blameron was really serious he'd stop tourist flights.

Fourthly The hole in the ozone layer was due to kill us by now. Instead the hole is curing itself.

This is the kind of rubbish that Cameron lives by, That's the effect of certain substances.

[jon mcewan]

i have been informed by a party member who was involved in the consultation that the true cost for the design of the logo, the consultation with central office staff and association chairman actually cost around £600,000
i think that we should have kept the tourch and that with this new logo

we are barking up the wrong tree

[Roger Pearse]

For 40k, it's fine. Changing the logo is all part of appealing to all those people too young to remember how awful Callaghan and Wilson were. It has to be done, and the result seems OK to me.

[Richard]

"Well said Roger. Perhaps the carpers preffered the totalitarian arm chosen by Fox..."

Don't be absurd, many of us were quite prepared to accept an oak tree as an alternative. We just didn't want it to look like it was drawn by a 5 year old.

Please tell me in what way the new design is "modern" and "fresh"? Yes, it's a new idea. But new doesn't automatically mean good.

Why, for example do you believe that this design is better than the ConHome oak tree? There seems to be an implicit assumption that anything slightly messy is somehow "cool" as opposed to the "boring" smartness of alternative designs. But surely the Conservative Party should be standing up for high standards and smartness rather than a childish attitude of "messy is good".

[Marcus]

It seems the Tory members here don't care that the argument here is that a symbol of "freedom" and liberty" is not modern.

No, they much rather prefer "left-wing" socialist values - that's being modern.

Caring about "freedom" and "liberty" is so old hat nowadays! No, you would rather ride on the eco-left-wing Blairite fascism train. It's so popular with the public, after all.

Otherwise you might have to actually make a case for "liberty" and "freedom" - and God forbid - that might prove unpopular.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

sadly one has to accept that 'squiggle' just about sums up Conservatism under Vapid Commieron - I wonder if he hadn't lied about the EPP to get elected and the Tories had a leader what logo he would have chosen.

A squiggle like the track of a coin on a scratch card shows his desperate gamble and his willingness to scratch out principles and supporters and substitute linguistic neural programming and fashion crud of blame for global warming - where EVERY honest scientist knows global warming is due to our local star's output - but that won't get you research money when you can tax and blame!

The Conservative Home logo put forward was also very Vapid Commieron split right up the middle and flakey!

Perhaps David Davis might have been a wiser choice he at least has 'Beat The Clock' ;-)

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Wallenstein]

>>we are barking up the wrong tree<<

Barking mad, more like.

No, let's be totally fair about this. I'm sure there are thousands of people up and down the country saying "I'd never have even thought of voting Conservative until they came up with that fantastic tree logo"

I mean; that is the game plan, isn't it?

[Robson S Leeds]

I feel urged to make my first post on the blog after being drawn to this page after reading the hay that has been made in the media over the ridiculously cynical and negative remarks made on this blog by so-called Conservative supporters.

As usual our recent attempts to bring 21st century relevance to our party (and by turn make us relevant once again to the aspiring and put-upon citizens of the UK) is torn into by a selection of dilletantes, luddites, enemies in the press and kamikaze-driven cynics - and knowing New Labour as I do, I wouldn't put it past them that a selection of these posts are by Labour supporters and activists.

The press is watching and writing metres and metres of 'column inches' in millions of newspapers on these reactionary spats and hissy-fits.

The old logo (like a lot of the old policies) were rejected by the electorate on three consecutive occasions - on two occasions so heavily it caused many of us to question whether the Party would ever be in government again. The old logo conjured up a cold, militant image reminded to many of the general public of torch lit parades and bookburnings!

The new logo is quintessentially British, a British tree. It represents awareness of the environment, conjures up images of wide open green spaces, conservation, the green belt, strength and durability, alludes to the family-tree and by turn family-values and is drawn in an informal manner to represent modernity, youth, openess, approachability and a lack of stuffiness.

If those in the Knee-jerk Tendency can calm themselves for the moment and carefully consider how it might appear to those other than just themselves, they might reach the conclusion that its actually slightly ingenious!

When will some conservative cynics realise Britain isn't in the 1950s anymore and that if we don't broaden our appeal we'll never have the chance to implement our ideas to make this country a more prosperous, more strong nation?

For those living in the real world, who have some idea about marketing and advertising in multi million £ organisations, £40,000 will seem like good value for a logo redesign when companies like BT spend millions on such exercises.

If people are so concerned about 'their money' being wasted I suggest their time would be better spent turning their fire on this profligate Labour administration (which has wasted billions on pet projects and jobs-for-the-boys driven by their self-contradictory New Labour dogma).

If some donors think their contributions can buy them undue influence on policy and party strategy I suggest they would have more luck joining the Labour Party.

David Cameron needs our support in his brave and populist reforms. He and his team and their actions so far are a breath of fresh air. He got the Lib Dems so panicked they jettisoned Kennedy and have put in a useless caretaker. He's seperated Blair so much from his backbenchers in the Commons his 'full term' is now reduced to less than 12 more months. The Conservatives also have a 7-10 lead in the polls.

Cameron's leadership and agenda setting speeches have put the enemy on the backfoot and exposed the shy lack of leadership (and indeed lack of opinion on matter non-economic) of the sulking plotting Chancellor and has raised serious questions over his qualities and forthcoming undemocratic coronation.

We voted decisively and democratically for a brilliant, innovative,and dynamic new leader. To suggest we made the wrong choice because some of us don't like the new logo is a gift to our enemies and the kind of divisiveness and carping that disabled the Major administration and gave Blair three election wins.

Those who feel embittered and marginalised by our new regime would probably feel more at home in UKIP - where their plotting and sniping would be guaranteed the irrelavance it deserves.

I'm sorry to say it and run the risk of stoking their discontent further, but some of the above critics should hang their heads in shame.

[UKout]

Quote: "Those who feel embittered and marginalised by our new regime would probably feel more at home in UKIP"

Yes indeed - the UKIP conference is Oct 7-8th at Telford.

[CR]

The leadership is fine. Cameron is a smart guy doing a great job.

It just so happens that, unfortunately, he has selected a very wet logo.

[Robson S Leeds]

UKOUT - Thank you for that forensic and pithy analysis of the points I made!

Well at least you've come out of the closet now and declared your allegiances, although I have to say the username UKout was always going to be a clue :)

Enjoy playing with your trainset in Telford. If you are so enamoured of UKIP why dont you spend your time on their blog?
No one to talk to I suppose - not now your great Orange Hope, Kilroy (oh how we laughed) has goosestepped off to form his own single issue pressure group.

I'm absolutely delighted the new leadership has put the wind up UKIP as much as they have proper political parties.

Unbelievably ignorant, disloyal and reactionary comments here. Some absolute beauties here;
- mentions of 'gyppos'
- claims that hard drugs influenced it and an implication Cameron is a cocaine addict (!)
- 'a five year old did it' - no pal, it was nine years in opposition that did it
- 'I could have done a better job for £40k' - oh really? Well why don't you go off and be a graphic designer oh talented factotum?
- the money was used to hire attractive girls
- Maggie (peace be upon her!) should come back (how does that work? - she's an octagenarian)
- global warming isnt happening (!)
- the logo should be a 'bulldog with a union jack scarf' :)
- I'm going to vote BNP because of it
- Michaelangelo painted st paul's cathedral (!)

The idea that Cameron (liberally insulted on here with childish name calling - 'Vapid Commieron' ;) )should build a winning Party adopting some of these potty ideas and spend endless hours at the Built To Last visits massaging some of these fevered egos, is crazy.

I went to the Built to Last event at Leeds and many questions were asked and points made - only one person in the audience didnt get to ask a question and a range of issues were addressed and he wrote whinging to all the papers about how much money he'd contributed...

Most of this is just beyond parody and sounds like it comes from the fevered imaginings of Simon Heffer or Richard Littlejohn on a day when they are suffering acutely from writer's block.

Also, Cameron hasn't stolen Blairite policies - Blair stole tory policies! Thats one of the main reasons they got into Government.

Go to the BNP and UKIP - if you know what BNP stand for and you still vote for them, we didnt want you in the first place - they are hateful thugs with criminal records, socialist economic policies that were abandoned by Neil Kinnock and a selection of grievances and grudges that wouldnt have been out of place at Nuremburg.

The kulaks and the bedblockers should get with the times and get with the programme or get out - we don't need you. Try to understand - it is a democracy that we live in! A significant number of the population have to have confidence and enthusiasm for you to win! We cannot just appeal to the core with the same policies that have been rejected three times - also the world has changed! Foreign policy and the environment are now totally focused on new priorities compared to 10 years ago.

As for the Libs and Labs on here sniping, I feel only pity that your parties are in such ugly messes and have so totally failed that you have so little enthusiasm or inclination to spend your time whinging on your own blogs. Why have the PM and Chancellor paralysed government wth their feud and why is the Lib OAP leader facing humiliation and rebellion at your conference this week? Go on! There's your starter for ten ;)

Conservatives should unite and fight the real enemy - Britain can't take another 9 years of Labour.

[malcolm]

Good to have you here Robson S. I hope you post more often.