Telegraph calls for Cameron to apologise for UKIP "mistake"

A leader in The Daily Telegraph admits that it does not know if yesterday's attack on UKIP from the Tory leader was a "spur-of-the-moment remark or part of a considered strategy".  Either way, it writes, "it was a mistake".  Today's Sun describes it as a "rare show of temper".

UKIP has certainly won lots of coverage from the dispute and is threatening to sue Mr Cameron if he does not apologise.  UKIP claims that Conservative members resent David Cameron's attack.  A UKIP press release referred to the debate that took place on this site yesterday.  The Telegraph does the same: "There appeared to be mixed reactions last night on the ConservativeHome.com website, with one applauding Mr Cameron for "showing some edge"."  ConservativeHome knows of at least one constituency office which received a constant stream of phone calls from outraged Tory members.  Conservatives have long been subject to incendiary charges of racism from left-of-centre parties.  Offended by those accusations themselves, Conservatives should be cautious about accusing others of such a serious vice. 

The Telegraph notes that the Conservative party has lost many voters to UKIP in recent years because such voters "feel the party has been insufficiently true" to the "self-government of Britain".  These voters "deserve solicitation, not scorn," the newspaper concludes.

David Cameron refuses to apologise, however.  Local government spokesman Eric Pickles, who has been charged with defending the remarks, has certainly been unapologetic.  The Guardian quotes him as saying that "a number of organisations ... accuse UKIP of spreading hate and bigotry and they say it's not just anti-Europe, it's anti-black, it's anti-minority, anti-immigrants, anti-asylum seekers."  Some Tory modernisers believe that the row underlines that David Cameron is a different kind of Tory without a racist bone in his body.   They have long been anxious for a row to dramatise the change that he represents.  They relish this debate.

Related link: The Conservative leader can move his party towards the centre without fear of a right wing challenge (Peter Franklin in The Guardian).

Comments

[Robert Halfon]

This is a really difficult one. I lost the Parliamentary election in Harlow (by 97 votes) thanks to UKIP and Veritas who between them got nearly 2,000 votes. For some strange reason UKIP/Veritas preferred electing a pro federalist MP Bill Rammell. So, I certainly have no love for UKIP. But, at the same time as neutralising UKIP, we must make certain that we reassure many of our party activists many of who feel unnsettled at present. Some of these activists who hold decent Eurosceptic views may see the attack on UKIP as an attack on them. They should be told otherwise.

[Chad]

Whether planned or otherwise it was a mistake compounded by the attempts to justify the comments for the simple reason that it leaves UKIP in an excellent position to compile their own dossier of racists and racism within the Tory Party and to release it just before the local elections.

It could borrow the title of the Tory election posters and be entitled "It's not racist.."

[philhuk]

Surely the question should be "was Cameron inaccurate?", which he wasn't. Sod apologising.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

David Cameron was probably right in his description of (most) UKIP members. But small parties - Dim Lebs included - thrive on us and Labour 'having a go' at them. I've never understood why the Left goes out of its way to give the BNP a 'name check' at every opportunity - perhaps it gives them a 'sense of purpose'?

[Cllr Iain Lindley]

Once again, the doom-mongers on this site have provided fuel for the opposition. Well done!

[Chad]

David Cameron was probably right in his description of (most) UKIP members

What do you base that statement on Justin?

[Lindsay Jenkins]

The issue is surely one of policy. And there David Cameron has not yet come up with a coherent believable strategy for dealing with the EU. Repatriating social policy and/or fishing is a drop in the ocean of the independence this country has already handed over to Brussels. Overwhelmingly the Commons merely rubber-stamps Brussels directives. Until we have a policy to deal with this then UKIP will cause us constant problems. Calling people childish names doesn’t get us anywhere.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Have you ever met any of them, Chad?

[Chad]

Justin, I have spent a lot of time discussing many issues with many of them.

I am not a UKIP supporter, they have many issues organisationally that are worthy of criticism, but Tories like yourself are happily calling people racist online without feeling any obligation to support what is a very serious claim.

If you could just detail your concerns, which could be perfectly valid, then we can all seperate the fact from the smear.

[Editor]

Justin: You may have met UKIP people with racist views. You, more than most, will also appreciate that there are many Tories with very prejudiced views. I've met LibDems who are hateful towards evangelical Christians. I've met Labour supporters who are anti-Semitic and hate America with a passion. Every party has its undesirable elements. Politics attracts people with strong views and sometimes those strong views are repugnant. I'm not sure trading these anecdotal attacks helps any particular party. It certainly doesn't help the overall reputation of politics.

[Buxtehude]

On this occasion I side with Cameron. I think he made a mistake to say what he did, but I do feel racism is one of the truly ugly aspects of our lives and it's worth taking almost any opportunity to denounce it and to show our party as leaving all that behind. No, it's not fair to say that most UKIP members are racists, clearly that's wrong. I would have chosen my words and indeed my target differently. But if Cameron breaks a few eggs making this particular omlette, then so be it.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Yes, all parties have 'bigots' and 'loonies' - but I think the point DC was making is that UKIP has more than the other paries (bar the BNP). Just heard Dr. Alan Sked, founder of UKIP, on the Today programme who seemed to be making similar comments.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

But as I said (see above), small parties like UKIP thrive on attacks from the bigger parties....

[Buxtehude]

I remember when John Major said that the thing that most upset him was racism. Several Tory commentators, while saying that racism was wrong, thought JM's remark was just tokenism - that no-one who wasn't a direct recipient of racial abuse could really be personally upset in that way. I even think the much-admired Charles Moore wrote something like that (I may be remembering wrongly). But racism is a profound affront to our humanity, it should be personally upsetting, and I'm so glad that Cameron's instinctive reaction is to attack it where he sees it. As I acknowledge, it may be unfair in this case, but the instinct is good. If we can't distinguish love of country and love of independence from suspicion of foreigners, for example (and UKIPers often can't), then there's something really wrong.

[Richard]

"Once again, the doom-mongers on this site have provided fuel for the opposition. Well done!"

I think you'll find that's Cameron's statement (and I do not consider mself a doom monger).

Instead of alienating potential voters we should be trying to attract them but without doing so in a way that will repel other voters. To attract UKIP voters, for example, we should emphasise our belief that the EU should not have a say over "social" legislation or anything unrelated to free movement of goods for that matter.

[James Hellyer]

Robert's quite right. UKIP's position commands a certain sympathy with a lot of Conservatives, especially in the parts of the party least enamoured with the Cameron agenda. Given the problems with that wing of the party this could serve to exacerbate them.

It's also unlikely that calling people closet racists will serve to draw them back into the fold.

I doubt intemperate language will do much to reassure europhiles either, especially when withdrawal from the EPP is supposedly in the works.

[Richard]

"But racism is a profound affront to our humanity, it should be personally upsetting, and I'm so glad that Cameron's instinctive reaction is to attack it where he sees it."

The problem is that the word "racism" is so overused nowadays that it is beginning to lose its effect. When the Left began to attack those who were anti-EU or anti-immigration as racist it just began to antagonise people who were genuinely outraged at the suggestion. People were constantly told the BNP were racist but it didn't stop 800,000 of them voting BNP in the European Elections (probably as a protest vote).

While I don't doubt the unpleasantness of racism, we shouldn't lose site of the Left's own set of hatreds - class hatred for example. Or our age old friend religious hatred.

[Ted]

Today programme was interesting - you could see a conflict between the desire to embarrass DC versus desire to accuse UKIP of proto NF views.

Sked started UKIP as a vehicle against closer European integration; his successors have used a number of issues to attract support and in my opinion UKIP have tended towards xenophobia in the way they use immigration as an example of EU failings. The highlighting of the colour and religion of immigrants, the bias in discussions on multiculturalism carry an ugly undertone.

Our problem as a party is that in many people's minds UKIP is the virtual right wing of the conservative party. The cross over of Tory eurosceptism into UKIP europhobia and the downplaying of our eurosceptic instincts since IDS has left those who want Europe to play as a major issue in British politics look to the more extreme UKIP as a way of getting Europe more centre stage.

It's important that this party does show it is Eurosceptic, does come out against further EU integration, back door implementation of the constitution because otherwise UKIP will be the only real force for those who share those views, and it isn't a nice party, it's Britain would be a different and IMHO worse country to live in.

[Margaret]

Alan Sked left UKIP a bitter man. He wanted it to be nothing more than a Tory pressure group.

I had a phone call this morning from a Tory friend who is furious with Cameron, he reckons Cameron will have lost the tories a lot of supporters, said he was the "fruitcake", and called him "a crass idiot".

[Chris]

I hope it was a "throwaway" remark, demonstrating inexperience, rather than a considered remark, demonstrating poor judgement.
So much for an end to "punch and judy" - another example of a pointless soundbite already proven empty.
I know this has been discussed already, but the sight of Cameron setting off to meet with Blair to conspire to introduce state funding of parties sickens me more than I can properly express.
The biggest disappointment of his disappointing first 100 days...

[Chad]

Racism is about prejudice and preference.

My core value is "No Preference, No Prejudice" and many seem to understand only half the issue, and think that racism is just about prejudice.

It is racist to offer preference or apply prejudice based on race.

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

Offering preference based on race is as racist as being prejudiced against someone based on their race. Each is as bad as the other, as both involve prejudice against one group based on race (the one not receiving the preference, or the one at the end of the prejudice)

I would suggest that Cameron's planned A-List with ersatz-diversity could be a clearly racist policy if it offer any preference based on race.

No talk of "increasing minorities" etc excuses the fracism of preference. Equlaity means just that, the playing field should be level for all, with the walls of prejudices smashed down, not offering ladders to a selected few.

There are racist elements in all parties, but I fear the CamCons could be about to institutionalise racism with their a-list.

[Margaret]

Most people are not racist, but they are against multiculturalism, simply because it doesn't work.

Our country is changing, there are cities now which have more Asian people than ethnic British, Leicester is one that comes to mind.

I for one do not want to see Britain become the first Islamic country in the west, but this is what a lot of people are prophesying.

The last General Election was the first one I did not vote Tory. I had it straight from my "supposed" eurosceptic MP that he liked the EU single market. That is one of the problems the Tories have, they talk eurosceptic, but that is all, when push comes to shove they will do nothing about controlling the dead hand of the EU.

Chad is right, the choice of parliamentary candidate should be the best person for the job, regardless of gender, religion or colour, anything else could be construed as racist.

[Ted]

Margaret - Alan Sked did not want UKIP to be a Tory pressure group. He wanted an organisation that brought together the anti-EEC views across the spectrum.

It's his successors who have moved it towards an agenda based on the right - targeting this party and our supporters. UKIP has become the safe protest vote party in Euro elections for Tory eurosceptics and in general elections when its obvious the Tories haven't a chance of winning.

I thought DC was wrong with his charges but the more outrage I've read the more I am pleased that he said it - perhaps people will look more closely at what an unpleasant party UKIP has become since Sked left and it will lose the aura of a plucky little party fighting for our rights and be seen as what it really is.

[Margaret]

Unpleasant in what way Ted?

[A Floating Voter who recently stumbled on Conservative Home]

I'm liking this Mr. Cameron more and more everyday.

He's DEFINITELY got MY vote!

[Ted]

Europe has two islamic countries already - Albania, Bosnia and Turkey (Europe & Asia) as a member of NATO has been politically in the West for decades.

Talk of Islamic Britain is propaganda from the NF, UKIP and certain Islamic parties. As UKIP is now fearful of Catholic Polish, Calvanist Latvian, Orthodax Romanian etc immigration perhaps it is xenophobia not racism - after all 300,000 christian East and Central Europeans must start to balance the "threat".

[Richard]

"I had it straight from my "supposed" eurosceptic MP that he liked the EU single market."

By that I expect he meant EU free trade. Free trade within the EU is not an issue to most Tories except for a minority of protectionists. It is when the EU attempts to introduce "social" legislation such as the social chapter or working time directive that displeases Conservatives. That said there are some "single market" measures such as metrification that are also unnecessary. Those who go on about this issue are sometimes perceived as bores. It will be interesting to see what happens when selling in imperial measurements becomes a criminal offence.

[Richard]

Continued from my above post:

Which I believe kicks in from 2009. It could help boost UKIP support due to the obvious absurdity of facing imprisonment for not using metric. I jope the Tories have a plan to meet this challenge.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

What strikes me as absolutely astounding is the fact that the same people who applauded loudest when David Cameron publicly eschewed 'Punch and Judy politics' are the same people who defend this bout of childish name-calling most strongly now.

Unbelievable.

[Marcus Wood]

Like Robert I write as someone who didn't win my seat in Torbay because it was a UKIp target seat and they increased their vote there.

I agree with Cameron and although the language was unusually intemperate the sentiment was spot on.

From my experience there is not chance whatsoever of UKip people voting Conservative again - I think that is a prospect we would be foolish to imagine (I was told on the doorstep by a UKIP supporter during the election that he would die before voting Conservative because Heath took us in to Europe. )

UKIp have become an extreme right wing fringe party and the best thing we have ever done is to turn out backs on them and focus instead on the several millions of disatisfied, disaffected and disenfranchised voters from Labour, Lib dem and above all 'none of the above' parties who want a reasonable alternative to Blairs Britain.

[Margaret]

The Conservative Party will do nothing to stem the flow of directives coming from the EU. Lord Pearson told us years ago that they were coming so thick and fast that they hadn't time to read them, let alone debate them, so they were just rubber stamped through.

Whilst Blair was EU President last year, a total of 4,183 directives were rubber stamped, I didn't hear any Tory voices raised against them.

[True Blue]

I for one do not want to see Britain become the first Islamic country in the west, but this is what a lot of people are prophesying.

Who exactly is prophesying this? Nostradamus? The BNP? What a load of nonsense.

[Christina]

Daniel wrote:

"
What strikes me as absolutely astounding is the fact that the same people who applauded loudest when David Cameron publicly eschewed 'Punch and Judy politics' are the same people who defend this bout of childish name-calling most strongly now.

Unbelievable."

I understand Punch and Judy politics to be when the Opposition opposes the Government even when the Government are proposing measures that the Opposition agree with or are close to. It is the politics of trying to do down the Government on everything, and has nothing to do with heated exchanges, or Cameron's latest attack on UKIP. You should see what they say about him and the CP as a whole.

I think it is much ado about nothing (though I think he shouldn't have said it) and has helped UKIP hit the headlines again.

[Ted]

Eurosceptism is not the same as europhobia - there are europhobes in our party who believe the UK would do better outside the EU, and they have good reasons for believing that. In the end the power to leave is the final support to sovereignty and if the EU project continues towards greater centralisation of powers in EU institutions I'd move over to that camp.

There are others, including me, who think that free movement of goods, services and people across boundaries is a benefit to this country economically and that a degree of trans-european co-operation to achieve this is worth the loss of soveriegnty that entails. I think our country benefits from the enhanced security that a loose confederation of European states brings and I think the financial support we give to help build strong economies in central and east Europe is worth it - I don't like CAP, think the Common Fisheries Policy has failed, don't want a European Army or Foreign Secretariat. I think the Euro is a bad idea. I'd like to see the European Commission reduced in size and powers.

and I agree with Richard that enforced metrication will be a major issue. Why is it that everything this government brings in has associated with it large fines or threats of imprisonment? OK anyone wanting to trade goods across European borders should use a standard set of measures but what difference does it make to a german if a trader in Leeds sells potatoes in pounds?

[William Kellaway]

David Cameron is stupid in attacking UKIP, I was tempted to vote for them in the E.U. elections but stayed at home, missing the chance to vote Conservative for the first time in over 45 years.I think Cameron is a poor leader, the best thing he has done is to persuade Hauge to return to the front bench, he should sack Boris Johnstone, the man is an idiot.

[True Blue]

I think it was an off-the-cuff remark. If it had been a considered remark he might have said "There is evidence of racism amongst senior UKIP members and in their policies."
That I don't think could be libellous - they would have sued the Sunday Mail already if it was. To say that majority of a party are closet racists, basically racists who don't want to admit it is ill-advised. It's like Freuds theories on repressed homosexuality - unfalsifiable.

Call me a vulture but I would be fascinated to see the libel trial, particularly if Cameron pleads "fair comment". I can't imagine that UKIP would come out of it smelling sweetly, although Cameron might look a bit foolish, too.

It would be interesting to see if Labour duck the question when asked if UKIP is a racist party.

[Don Hoyle]

So many people tell me that joining Europe was the worst thing this country ever did. I agree with them. What always makes it worse for me, who voted to stay in Europe at the subsequent referendum, was that it was Ted Heath who led the campaign, which, as we now know, was one long lie from start to finish. Heath was quite convincing when he said that we would not lose one whit of nationhood by being 'European', any more than a Cornishman feels less Cornish by being English. Rubbish! We have had over thirty years of being conned but I think it was really brought home to me last Saturday when I saw the French Tricoloeur flying over the winner's podium at the Boat Race (sponsored by Electricitie de France).

There is not a spoon long enough for us to sup with the EU devil; we should pull out and I suspect I am not the only card-carrying Conservative member to say so.

UKIP at least express this honestly, but are, for all their protestations to the opposite a 'one-trick pony'. They gain protest votes but not votes when it counts - to gain real power from a General Election. The racist thing is nothing more than a smoke screen - just go down the Con Club any lunchtime! (I suspect it's the same in any Working Man's Club, too! And in any local!)

Dave could easily have drawn attention to 'fruit cakery', while at the same time expressing any other concerns (UKIP do not have a monopoly on fruit cakes, of course) but he has now made people like me consider the Conservative position vis-a-vis Europe. What is happening with the withdrawal from the EPP/ED? That seems to have been an empty promise. Will a Conservative Government REALLY abolish the hated regions?

Robert Halford has got it right - an attack on UKIP is, by implication, an attack on the Eurosceptic views held within the Conservative Party and possibly heralds a move towards Europhilia. In which case, the ranks of UKIP may start to swell.

[Richard]

"Eurosceptism is not the same as europhobia"

The problem I have with the term europhobia is that it suggests an irrational fear of Europe. This may be true for many people but personally I oppose the concept of the EU on a simple matter of democracy - the wishes of the British electorate and the legislative power of the government shouldn't be overruled by a European government with minimal legitimacy.

I do accept that at the moment, turning the EU into a free trade is not on the horizon. The best we can do is to keep fighting until gradually we have come to an arrangement where we have free trade with Europe without having to put up with the social legislation.

[Michael McGowan]

Memo to Marcus Wood: I am one of the disaffected voters who would like a reasonable alternative to Blair's Britain. The problem is that I don't believe David Cameron is up to the job of providing it. Instead of indulging in pre-pubescent abuse, he should have been smart and stolen UKIP's clothes for the local elections: i.e. reinvigorating local government. The catch is that he doesn't believe in localism. He and Maude are every bit as centralising as Blair: witness their attempts to disenfranchise their rank and file members; stitch up the candidates list and now it appears, to exclude anyone but their cronies from the candidacy for Mayor of London. They will say anything but their actions speak louder than their ritualised utterances.

Top of their agenda for today of course is to agree with Blair a funding formula for political parties which forces the taxpayer to pay through the nose to shore up the vested interests at Westminster.

[Christina]

In reply to Don Hoyle.

I don't see why Cameron is getting flack with regard to the EPP. He has done the right thing, he has delegated the task to William Hague.

Why isn't Hague being questioned about it? Why is it always Cameron?

The best case scenario for me would be withdrawal from the EPP before the end of this year and a good explanation of the time taken to negotiate with fellow conservatives in Europe to form the new group of considerable size.

I don't see Roger Helmer complaining.

[Umbongo]

DC has done the seemingly impossible. Right in the middle of Labour's darkest moments since 1997 he has diverted all attention to a useless spat with UKIP and offended 2-3 million UKIP (and potentially Conservative) voters into the bargain. Using the all-purpose PC insult ("racist") underlines the sheer vacuity of DC's thinking and leadership. It's early but I think that now would be a good time to start thinking about the next Conservative leader. If we stay with this one then the next general election will not see the party as HM Opposition let alone as HMG.

BTW this isn't doom-mongering it's realism: we have to realise that a very big mistake was made in selecting DC as leader: a bigger mistake is soldiering on with him at the front.

[Chad]

Why isn't Hague being questioned about it? Why is it always Cameron?
Because it was Cameron's personal pledge.

I don't see Roger Helmer complaining.
No, but you can hear him complaining in his interview with ToryRadio where he repeats that Cameron's pledge was immediate withdrawal.

[Don Hoyle]

I accept Christina's remarks.

Before I take any flak about possible comments about what is said down the Con Club, the WM Clubs or the local, may I just say that most people, whatever they might say in unguarded moments, accept meritocracy before racism.

There is no evidence linking UKIP to the BNP, by the way and the CP have tried to find it. Dave should apologise for his 'closet racist' remarks.

[Christina]

Umbongo,

If the majority of CP members agree with you then they can vote against his Built to Last program.

Chad,

Yes it was Cameron's personal pledge to leave the EPP group, and he has delegated it to William Hague straight away. Leaders have to delegate, and Helmer mentioned that Hague is being quiet about the details of his negotiations with our European allies and potential new group members.

You say that Roger Helmer was complaining in the podcast. I didn't hear him complaining. I did hear him mention he was promised immediate withdrawal and that hadn't happened, but he wasn't complaining.

What could have possibly happened for an immediate withdrawl pledge to Helmer (if Helmer is accurate, we all make mistakes) to change to this addition of building a new group?

If Helmer is right, I think the idea of building the group first came after Cameron's talks with Helmer, and it may have been Hague who wanted to negotiate a new grouping.

Certainly, Helmer is still backing Cameron and Hague and is more aware of what Hague is doing than we are, which is appropriate for such negotiations.

When I made a bet with a UKIP member about EPP withdrawal, I bet by 9 Dec 2006, and am a bit perplexed about all the 'he's never going to withdraw' talk.

Let me ask those who doubt the pledge something. Do you think William Hague doesn't want us out of the EPP? It's his task you see.

[Chad]

By raising the pledge in the interview, do you think Roger made the point to express satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the delay?

[Christina]

I thought Roger was very positive about the way things are going with regard to the EPP in his interview. I meant to write 'Helmer is more aware of what Hague is doing' by the way.

His mentioning of Cameron was just a mention to my ears. He complained about Beasley.

It comes down to this for me.

I would prefer the Conservative MEPs to have a strong group by September or even December, than to withdraw tomorrow to make a point, but in a weak group.

The former position would be best for Britain and the rest of Europe, the latter would not be best.

[Christina]

PS The former is a 'country before Party' position, IMO.

[Chad]

Sure Christina, we'll leave it there, I appreciate your different viewpoint.

I just wondered whether you feel Roger is satisfied or dissatisfied with the delay, as I have always understood expressions of dissatisfaction to be 'complaining'

However, it is a semantic point and not worth delving into any further. I'm just too pedenatic sometimes.

Back on the thread though.

Do you agree that offering preference based on race is also racist? If Cameron forces an ethnic candidate on a constituency, does that not go beyond "a few bad apples" into party-sanctioned racism?

I'm am not mentioning this in a bad way, but you have clear views, are a current Tory and ex-BNP and ex-UKIP and you are clearly (from my experience) not a closet-racist.

Surely Cameron's insult must annoy you, as it implies that you are a closet racist when you clearly are not.

[Chad]

Although, not pedantic with my spelling... :-)

[Don Hoyle]

Christina

It concerns me that the one stone-bonker promise, nicked from Dr Fox, was the pledge to pull out of EPP. This was something he could do straight away and would actually 'make a difference'.

Too many MEPs are so far into the Euro-trough that that all you can see is the soles of their shoes above the surface, so I do not have any sympathy whatsoever for those objecting to the withdrawal of Conservative MEPs from the EPP - they have obviously acquired a cosy little billet in Brussels, whatever their news letters, say.

To be fair to our local MEP (no names, no pack drill) he is openly fighting his corner to stay in, but what benefit have we got in return for the trail of gravy he leaves in his wake? £200 per month fuel bills (were £70.00) thanks to EU competition policy to name but one (out of hundreds of other benefits to choose from).