Philip Hollobone MP: We must have the courage to break free of the EU

Philip Hollobone is the Conservative MP for Kettering.

I don't believe in ever closer European union and I don't believe most British people do either. The fundamental principle of the 1972 Accession Treaty is not supported by a majority of people on these islands. What do we do then? Do we stay in an organisation whose fundamental principle most of us reject and do our best to mitigate the worst consequences or do we say enough is enough and we'd be better off out? I have come to the conclusion that we'd be better off out and that is why I am supporting the The Freedom Association's Better Off Out campaign which provides the positive case for leaving the European Union.

The drive to deeper European integration is like being on an escalator that moves constantly forward. Most of our EU counterparts are actually running along the escalator in their blind enthusiasm for a European political union, others are walking along the escalator at a more measured pace, but nevertheless still going in the same direction, and some, like Britain, sometimes stop still in protest at the direction of travel. The problem is that if you stop on an escalator you still move forward - you actually have to step off if you don't like the direction in which you're headed!

Most people want to see enhanced trade with other European countries, we like to travel in Europe and our young people increasingly want to study there. What most of us don't want is to be part of a state called Europe, which determines an ever increasing part of our daily lives. We don't want our laws decided by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, we don't want our laws decided by elected delegates from other EU countries, and nor do we wish to be obliged to pay the ever increasing bill. We want to govern ourselves. Yes, let's co-operate with other European countries on issues of trade, justice, the environment, Third World development and other international issues, but abandoning our sovereignty in a growing number of areas with ever more qualified majority voting is surely not the destiny of our proud nation.

Britain faces an increasingly uncertain future in a rapidly changing world and our memberhip of the EU is hindering, not helping, Britain's response. The EU is simply not up to the task of addressing the competitive challenge from China, India and Brazil. The EU has woefully let down both British farmers as well as struggling nations in the Third World with its adherence to the Common Agricultural Policy. The EU's Schengen arrangements ensure the free flow of illegal migrants through much of the EU all the way up to Britain's borders.

The EU is yesterday's idea and leaving it would be beneficial for the UK. Direct annual membership costs of £12 billion would be saved and could be better spent on a combination of enhancing Britain's beleaguered public services, providing more police and tougher border controls, and cutting Britain's record tax burden. Of course these membership costs don't include all the indirect costs such as complying with all the unnecessary regulations, and the loss of earnings from farming and fishing. Britain would be able to negotiate better trade arrangements with NAFTA and, whilst still trading with the EU, resume our rightful place at the centre of world trade, encouraging trade liberalisation across the planet. We would also be able to revive British agriculture and fishing freed from the shackles of having to prop up inefficient French farming and by being able to resume control of fishing in British territorial waters. It's also important to remember that EU regulations are a burden on every UK business including the vast majority that never export at all and and those which do export, but only to countries outside Europe. The City of London would be able to reassert its authority as a global market place and liberate itself from growing EU regulatory intrusion. And by leaving the EU, the threat of being forced one day to abolish the Pound and adopt the Euro would ensure the Bank of England remained independent from the European Central Bank and end the threat that Britain's gold reserves would one day be transported to Germany. The retort that millions of British jobs would be lost by our EU exit is simply nonsense. Given the EU's positive trade balance with the UK, does anyone really think that the EU's trade with Britain would stop simply because we were no longer members?

Our exit would also mean that we would no longer have to participate in the farce that is the European Parliament. Eurosceptic MEPs have done their level best to knock some sense into EU law making, but is like pushing water uphill. Our influence in the EU is declining all the time as our share of voting rights falls and as the number of qualified majority votes increases. The EU has also got its beady eye on the UK's legal systems, which have evolved through centuries, but which increasingly face the threat of being turned upside down by the Napoleonic code system. Britons rightly treasure trial by jury, the right of habeas corpus, and of being deemed innocent until proven guilty - all these will remain under threat by our continued membership of the EU.  And why on earth do we feel the need to ban imperial measures to comply with EU diktats? I don't believe it should be illegal for a market trader to sell a pound of sausages, but under our membership of the EU this is now the case.  Leaving the EU would restore the authority of Westminster as our national Parliament and encourage higher turnouts in general elections as people were reassured that their vote would actually make a difference.

Our proud country needs to retain control over our own border controls and over Her Majesty's Armed Forces. There is widespread hostility in our country to handing over immigration controls to Brussels and on the step-by-step development of a Euro Army and a EU defence establishment separate to and undermining of NATO. When Britain voted in 1975 to remain a member of the Common Market, the arguments then were all about the importance of free trade. However, since then the Common Market has changed into the European Economic Community (EEC), then the European Community (EC) and then the European Union (EU) all without any subsequent referendum. You now have to be 49 years of age to have been eligible to have taken part in the 1975 referendum and so there are millions of British people who have never had a specific vote on the European project.

In the early years of the 21st century, Britain has a wonderful opportunity to embark on a new course that will enable our country to rise to the new challenges that face our world. Our future best lies in becoming a low tax, high enterprise, well educated and vigorously independent nation with a proud heritage and confident forward-looking approach. The EU is not going to help us in this quest; indeed it has become a millstone round our neck and will hold us back until we have the courage to break free.

Comments

[william]

Well put Philip. Better Off Out communicates its message well.

I often wonder why people don't get more exercised by the high prices we pay for internationally traded goods inside the EU.

The threat of anti-dumping measures forces overseas manufacturers to keep their prices up by an average of 50%, which costs Britain maybe £30 billion a year.

TV's are 65% more to buy in the EU than in the rest of the world, furniture 75% and so on. I don't think people realise how much more they are being made to pay to keep the EU afloat - out of their own pockets.

[Serf]

I constantly challenge Europhiles to tell me the benefits of EU membership. I have yet to come across a real argument, let alone a convincing one.

I don't think anyone has ever done so without using the words /phrases, "destiny", "xenophobe", "peace", "being at the heart of Europe", or by references to millions of jobs being lost. The only relevant one being lost jobs, which unfortunately for them has zero credibility.

I am so sorry that we didn't get to have a referendum on the constitution. Because I am sure that it would have opened Pandora's box, destroying the Europhile argument completely.

Better Off Out?

You Bet.

[Andrew Woodman]

I don't know where Philip finds time to do all this. Very sound guy who talks a lot of sense. Let's see if the Europhiles can argue against this without using the old cliches of xenophobia and isolation. The truth is, there is no substance to their arguments.

[Donal Blaney]

Oh Andrew but the old cliches are SUCH fun to trot out. Try it some day. Debate Europe with a fellow Eurosceptic but one of you plays the role of the federast. It is astonishing how easy it is to trot out the vacuous phrases "little Englander", "pooling not ceding sovereignty", "no one believes the French want to be less French than they are now" and the gem of "I went travelling in Europe and started off with £100 and by the time I had finished going through each country and returning home without spending any money, thanks to the different currencies in circulation I only had £35" etc etc.

Most Euroquislings are left to parrot these inane phrases because, like Ken Clarke, they have rarely, if ever, read the treaties. They simply endorse the EU Project because their bien pensant friends in the chattering classes tell them that it is the "proper" and "decent" thing to believe in.

[John Coles]

Impossible to put improve on this arguement. Well done for having the courage to say what many in the Conservative party dare only to think. Read this article, Mr Cameron, it presents a sound and attractive case well. If the party adopted such an approach, UKIP would be finished, the LibDems would be washed up in the Westcountry and a significant conservative General Election majority would be assured. Sadly, I expect the thinking is too radical and pro-British for the effete metrosexuals who hold the levers of power. Got to keep Ken Clarke, Hesletine and the BBC sweet, haven't we?

[Disillusioned]

Europe needs to be tackled carefully. I entirely agree with the sentiment expressed on this thread but were the Conservatives to adopt a stance of wanting immediate withdrawal from the EU – the BBC, our rivals and the liberal elite would not struggle to portray the Conservatives as a band of far-right extremists. While it’s true to say that huge swathes of the population are eurosceptic that doesn’t automatically translate into supporting the Conservatives – if we take a more eurosceptic line our rivals will portray us as xenophobic little Englanders, and they will succeed. Perhaps, we should quietly promise a referendum on our EU membership and leave it at that.

[david]

Can someone confirm for me,is it official Conservative Party policy to withdraw from the EU if the Conservatives win the next GE. If it is not, why not.

[Chad]

Well done Philip. Go the Boo's!

[Chad]

"Can someone confirm for me,is it official Conservative Party policy to withdraw from the EU if the Conservatives win the next GE. If it is not, why not."

No it isn't. And David Cameron had banned any supporters of eu withdrawal from working on the front bench.

[david]

Thank you Chad, I thought as much.
Therefore If a Tory MP is promoting a policy which is at variance with the official Conservative policy on the EU, what sanctions (if any) will the Pary leader take against the aforesaid MP.

[Chad]

None, obviously, as Philip is not proposing to reject official party policy (as for example Caroline Jackson has without sanction or reprimand) just presenting a different direction that he would like the party to take.

[Tam Large]

Yes, yes, yes!!! Well done Philip. At last a Conservative MP who speaks to the hearts, minds, and beliefs of our supporters. This is the election winner, not the Blair-clone pap we are getting from Cameron: and which is keeping our supporters at home, not voting, as in Bromley.

Freeing this country from the invisible shackles of the EU will return to us money enough to lower taxes and maintain/increase public spending. Cutting out the burden of EU regulation which is strangling our businesses will enable us to grow in the global market, instead of stagnating in the economic protectionist pond which is the EU.

Keep on speaking for us - the dispossessed and hitheto ignored majority in our Party and in the country as a whole. We are with you all the way.

[Richard]

A question for pro-Europeans:

How do we gain by giving £12 billion to the EU, a large proportion of which subsidises inefficient French farms.

How do we gain from compulsory metrification, the social chapter and other regulations that are either ridiculous or undermine the ability of British business to compete? Bear in mind that these regulations have been estimated to cost between £6 billion and £20 billion a year.

How do we gain from the EU's common external tariff which prevents us buying cheaper goods from elsewhere?

How do we gain from having laws enforced upon this country made by politicians who we did not vote for? Is this not undemocratic? What if a law is enforced (such as the aforementioned compulsory metrification) that we don't want?

If the EU turned into a free trade area overnight, how would we suffer?

[Yet Another Anon]

And David Cameron had banned any supporters of eu withdrawal from working on the front bench.
Any open supporters that is, it is well known that there are a few leading Conservative MP's who keep quiet on the issue so as not to damage their careers who want out, at the same time some favouring greater integration have been being given prominent positions leading policy groups such as Kenneth Clarke and Michael Hestletine among others.

If the Conservative Party switched to favouring EU withdrawal I rather think UKIP would vanish very quickly.

[UKIP Drone]

YACC - (Yet another Career Conservative).
Heard it all before. Why don't any of these token Eurosceptics have the balls and cross the floor to UKIP. Could it be they love the money and are needed by the Cons to keep up the pretence of on ongoing debate to keep real conservatives inside Dave's metrosexual-tent?

[Simon Richards]

I wish UKIP Drone would concentrate his energy on criticising pro-EU MPs - or Eurosceptic MPs who, unlike Philip Hollobone, don't have the guts to call for Britain to leave the EU. Nigel Farage, who, like Philip, is a supporter of the Better Off Out campaign, understands this - as do many other UKIP supporters. Let's be frank about this - if Philip (and the other MPs who want Britain to leave the EU, such as Philip Davies, Douglas Carswell and Austin Mitchell) were to leave their parties and join UKIP, they would lose their seats and there would be no anti-EU voice in the House of Commons. Where's the sense in that?

[Chad]

Exactly. What I find very telling is that the calm, reasoned and balanced arguments are increasingly espoused by those in favour of withdrawal, whereas the hysterics and personal insults are increasingly coming from those opposed to withdrawal.

No matter how many times we seek to engage in a rational discussion of the merits of either staying in or pulling out, those in favour of staying in display refuse to attack the issues, not the people.

For me, this is enormously encouraging as it shows we are winning the debate.

[david]

So if a Conservative MP is prepared to come out in favour of Britains removal from the EU, this in itself is not at variance with official party policy, just asking the party to take a new direction! So no sanction will be taken against that MP, other than he/she will not be considered for a front bench position.

So at the next GE, individual MP's will be putting in their campaign literature their intention to work for the UK's withdrawal, even if this means voting against their own government! Because I can forsee a time when the problems John Major had with the 'bastards' coming back, big time.

At some point DC is either going to commit to withdrawal, or (more likely) take on the Eurohaters, cos' they 'aint sceptical they hate the EU and all it stands for.

[British BooDog]

With the sad death of Eric Forth we have lost one BOO supporter and gained(?) an EUphile in Bob 'sign here' Neil.If a Tory or Labour MP left for UKIP he, or indeed she, would be signing up early for his or her parliamentary pension and be replaced by a 'CLASS A' EU supporter at the next general election.UKIP must be more pragmatic and support those of common cause.The BOO campaign is a marvellous lever
which,if correctly applied,could change the EU spectrum for good.EUphiles should be squeezed until they fail but please don't shoot your allies first.
Don't let the Ukip 'Drone' be the sound of the Kamikazee wing of Ukip.

[Chad]

David,
There is a marked difference between having a different opinion to actively refusing to comply with party policy.

Ignoring europhiles and europhobes, as I have said before there are two kinds of eurosceptic, both want eu reform with one believing it is possible, and the other believing it is not making withdrawal the only way forward.

For the record, I'm a pro-Europe internationalist who believes that regionalism breeds friction not cooperation (see super pro-eu libdems who hate the USA and want a USE to challenge them).

"take on the Eurohaters, cos' they 'aint sceptica"
Please, as I noted previously, let's discuss the issues calmly instead of throwing childish insults around.

It seems perfectly rational to me to be pro-Europe but not think the eu is the best vehicle to forward cooperation.

[David Banks]

If we did as Better Off Out suggest and left the EU, how would we deal with the tens of thousands of EU migrant workers merrily making hay while the economic sun shines due to EU expansion? If we withdrew from the EU they wouldn't be able to work here as fellow EUers. Would we repatriate them ( looks a bit hardcore)? Would we reimburse firms using them who had to lose their labour? Alternatly would removing them create such a hole in the labour market that unemployment would drop dramatically?

[william]

YAA writes - And David Cameron had banned any supporters of eu withdrawal from working on the front bench.
Any open supporters that is, it is well known that there are a few leading Conservative MP's who keep quiet on the issue.................

Is it? I think that this is the impression you have, maybe it is even the impression that you are intended to have, but it is certainly not the case.

I won't name names as that is helping others to undo us, but have a look sometime at the people on the front bench. There is no shortage of euroceptics with established credentials.

Remember that eurosceptic talk will draws fire, and exacts a price. The public don't understand the issues so all they see is a whole crowd of politicians falling out with each other, which can hurt our support.

Cameron has the brains to keep eurosceptic talk to a minimum. That however has not barred him from carrying out eurosceptic manoevres - EPP withdrawal, proposing amendment to the RRF Bill to undo the effects of the European Communities Act 1972, also engaging in the HRA debate.

If we take action but don't rant, and allow the other side to do the ranting, they are the ones who look extreme, phobic and unbalanced, not us.

Cameron has nailed his colours to the mast by his advocacy of his belief in Compassionate Conservatism. A two hour read of that should convince anyone that he can hardly be a europhile.

It is interesting that Cameron is pilloried in the Guardian for being a eurosceptic, but equally pilloried here for example for being the opposite.

Christopher Gill the Chairman of BOO has abandoned the Conservatives for the wastelands of UKIP on the strength of this beief that Cameron is a europhile. It's a pity in a way as his assessment looks to be wrong.

For those who say 'what about fishing' it might be said that we can do nothing unless we win power. Advocating withdrawal from the CFP is impossible without a more general withdrawal and so is a little dishonest - as is repealing the HRA only going to effective if we go further.

Cameron will not advocate a general withdrawal from the EU. If he wins power, the evidence is growing that he could carry out such a manoevre. I would say that eurosceptics will gain more by joining the silent approach than by ranting. As a longterm offender myself, some might find this opinion a bit rich!

[Tory Bunny]

I'm not convinced by the argument to leave the EU. But what I do want to highlight is Phillip's comments:
"Yes, let's co-operate with other European countries on issues of trade, justice, the environment, Third World development and other international issues"

These big international issues where we need a strong voice are were the co-operation comes in. Enabling Europe to deal strongley (stronger than individual nations) with the US and China is to me what the EU should be about and not an institution that is interfering in peoples everyday lives.

So Phillip I wouldn't be voting in support of you just yet, but I think you make the case for leaving better than I've heard it made before.

[Simon Richards]

Just a minor correction - Christopher Gill is the Hon. Chairman of The Freedom Association, not of the Better Off Out Campaign itself. Christopher's decision to join the UK Independence Party was a personal one and both The Freedom Association and the Better Off Out campaign remain strictly independent of any single political party.

[Mandy Worrall]

Be silent and you may as well agree with the Europhiles. Speak up and risk ignomany from certain politicians, who say that the public are too stupid to understand - so why bother! I say ignore those who have little faith in their people or this land. Stand up for what is rightfully ours, loudly, consistently, unashamed and determined. David Cameron is not the man to lead this country anywhere, except into decline and alienation. We're BETTER OFF OUT and better off without him too. If he cannot or will not lead Britain to the right road, we will still have choices. I urge everyone to use these wisely and soon.

[John Coles]

Encouraging words, Mandy Worrall, but I cannot see that we have any choice in the matter. How on earth do we use our choice "wisely" - where is our choice? UKIP, I regret to say, is a long way from the levers of power and all of the main parties are in favour of continued EU membership. The only action we can take is to recognise and encourage the independence of MPs like Phillip Hollobone - but that is hardly exercising a choice.

[TaxCutter]

My main reason for not joining UKIP is that I've met them.

[Christina]

"It is interesting that Cameron is pilloried in the Guardian for being a eurosceptic, but equally pilloried here for example for being the opposite."

Exactly, William! The problem with UKIP is that they slag him off as a EU-phile too. It shows black and white thinking.

I think the Better Off Out campaign is a great idea and hope that skeptics of all party can work together. UKIP may gain some respect if they stop opposing Tory EU-Skeptics at elections. To oppose skeptics shows that they put their party first over their country, despite their claims. They would rather have a Tory lose a seat and a Lib Dem win than target their opposition for the good of the country.

Philip H has my admiration for this article and standing up to be counted in difficult cirumstances.

[william]

Mandy - I sympathise with how you feel about Cameron. But you are wrong in my opinion.

A two-thirds majority of Britons desire either exit from the EU, or a return to the free trading arrangement we were told we were joining in 1973. You can spend a lot of time trying to persuade people to agree with you on this if you like, but the polls show that they already do. The persuasion job has been largely done.

We now need to move towards the action. Cameron must win power if he is to do anything for us.

Winning power will necessitate less focus on the EU issue, as it will be used to create a false impression about the Conservative Party if we talk endlessly about it.

It is not possible to judge much about Cameron's policy preferences from his rhetoric. Try reading Compassionate Conservatism. There are plenty of clues there.

[Derek]

I am very impressed and grateful to Philip Hollobone MP, and to Douglas Carswell MP,Sir Nicholas Winterton MP, Lady Ann Winterton MP, Philip Davies MP, David Davies MP, Chris Chope MP, and the late Eric Forth for having the courage of their convictions and supporting the "Better Off Out" campaign

[robyn grant]

How Bromley could select such a europhile as Neil following their close admiration for his predeccessor. Small wonder why Tories stayed at home. The association should heed the BOO - and re-select!

[Anne Palmer]

A very courageous Gentleman. Well done. A man of principles. For those Conservative MP's and others in Labour that feel the same way, yet are afraid of losing their seats, then I have news for them. The stark choice soon will be between saving your Country or saving your position in your Parties, but that may not last long, for how long do you think the people of this country will continue to pay the high taxes to, a) keep conservatives and the rest of the alleged British MP's in a job they can no longer do, or b) continue to pay their taxes from their hard earned money for it to be given straight to the European Union all the time when we have never ever been allowed anywhere near that hallowed level playing field that we have heard so much about?

Labour has lost its way, for my father was a true Labour man and he must be absolutely spinning in his grave now at the antics of 'New Labour'. As for the conservatives, I thought things might have changed when David Cameron was chosen for their new leader, but as soon as the old guard was brought back onto the front bench, that was my little ray of hope down the drain. It will be the people in the end that will save this Country. I just hope and pray that it will be a peaceful way. Thank you Philip Hollobone MP. Thank you for giving me a glimmer of hope that there are more MP's like you still in Office.

[David Sergeant]

For a start it seems pretty certain that going in to Europe was a big mistake. But talk about being better off out is plain childish. We would almost certainly be better off if we never went in - but - we are in and have to start there.

Any British government with a clear mandate to get out would have to negotiate for years and France, to name one, would constantly be inventing jolly tricks to make it more difficult. If we were out we would, like Norway, be faced with a stream of Euro issues.

The only way is to play long term, that seems to me what Cameron is doing. And fatuous burblings by "some Tory MPs" just makes his job more difficult and encourages the election of pro-Europe governments.

When are some Tory MPs going to grow up?

[Anne Palmer]

To David Sergeant I would respectfully suggest, that as soon as one Country leaves the EU, (Particularly if it is a major one such as the United Kingdom)the rest will tumble like a pack of cards. We are told that all we have to do to come out, is to repeal the European Communities Act. This is why our MP's have got away with saying that our Parliament is still sovereign. At the moment, the Judges look to the treaties signed thus far, once out of the EU, they will have to look to OUR Constitution and to the oaths of Office made.
We can come out of the EU and I refer to Lord Denning's ruling, although I would suggest that coming out may not be quite as easy as we have been told, but then, have we always been told the full truth of the matter?
Taken from “The Foundations of European Community Law”, by T.C. Hartley, and I will start from, "Does this mean that post-accession Acts must prevail over Community Law? If this were so, it would be a very serious matter: it would mean that the United Kingdom would be constitutionally unable to accept the obligations of community membership. Fortunately this is not the case. Section 2 (4) lays down a rule of interpretation--and in view of the United Kingdom's membership of the community, it is a very strong rule---that Parliament is to be presumed not to intend any future statue to override Community Law. Thus in R v Secretary of State for Transport, ex parte Factortame, The House of Lords said that section 2 (4) of the European Communities Act has the same effect as if a section were incorporated in every subsequent Act of Parliament, expressly stating that the provisions of the latter were to be without prejudice to directly effective Community law. Consequently, Community law will always prevail unless Parliament clearly and expressly states in a future Act that the latter is to override Community law. This of course, would constitute a repudiation of the treaty and would lay the United Kingdom open to proceedings in the European Court for violation of a Treaty obligation. Responsibility would then rest with parliament, not with the courts. The position was clearly expressed by Lord Denning MR in McCarthy’s Ltd v Smith where he said,

"If the time should come when Parliament deliberately passes an Act with the intention of repudiating the Treaty or any provision in it or intentionally of acting inconsistently with it and says so in express terms then I should have thought that it would be the duty of the courts to follow that statute of our Parliament. I do not however envisage any such situation…. Unless there is such an intention and express repudiation of the Treaty, it is our duty to give priority to the Treaty".

This means that ultimate sovereignty still rests with Parliament: Community Law prevails only because Parliament wants it to prevail. Parliament could always repeal the European Communities Act (debateable after ratification of an EU Constitutional Treaty?) now?) and then Community law would cease to have effect in the United Kingdom.

Notes. [1979] 3 All ER 325, at 329. See also per Lawton IJ at 334. In subsequent proceedings in the same case Lord Denning made the point even more forcefully: see [1981]! All ER 111, at 120. For an earlier statement by lord Denning, see Shields v E. Coomes (Holdings) Ltd [1979] 1 All ER 456, at 461-2, [1978[ 1 WLR 1408, at 1414 (CA)

My comments, things have moved on a great deal since that ruling, and we have transferred sovereignty (authority) to the European Union in many areas since then. Nowhere have I found any reference that the difference in accepting a Constitution for the EU would make to this Country, or the ability to get out of that by either Denning or Dicey. I doubt that it would have even been thought about. Has this country ever in its whole history, accepted a “Constitution” from an outside authority that would automatically override the United Kingdom’s Constitution?

We also may be assuming that a British Government would only pass laws that are for the benefit of the British people and would not harm them or place them or this country in jeopardy? Looking at the legislation that is and has been proposed before amendments, the legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill springs to mind and I wonder whether that legislation is acceptable to the ordinary people if they realised the effect this would have on them and this Country.
We live in interesting times eh?

[Roger Helmer MEP]

As a Conservative MEP for the East Midlands, covering Philip Hollobone's Kettering constituency, may I say how delighted I am with his principled commitment to the Better Off Out campaign. His article says it all. Or as Dan Hannan puts it, "The EU is making us poorer, less democratic and less free".

Of course many other Conservative parliamentarians and parliamentary hopefuls agree with the campaign, but are reluctant to mention it lest it impact on their careers. All the more credit to Philip for coming out so clearly on the issue.

[Jonathan]

UKIP cost us 27 seats at the last GE and would cease to exist if we espoused pulling out.
Despite the entire media (especially the broadcast media) arguing we should remain in and scaring everyone of the consequences of withdrawal, the British people remain resolutely more europhobic/eurosceptic than the political classes.
This is another issue along with EVfEL that would energise the electorate into voting by convince them that it was worth voting again. The last 2 elections have seen only the politcial core come out to vote and they are much more firmly fixed in their preferences. It would be much easier to persuade a non voter to vote Tory than to convert an existing voter. The 2005 non-voters are who we need to win. These voters despair of the political process because nothing changes. Blair accepted Thatcher and Cameron has accepted Blair. A couple of big issues will transform the political scene. A couple of modestly good opinion polls in the 9th year of a Labour government are no security. We are miles from government and Cameron is going to have to find some courage if he is ever to be PM.

[Cllr. Gavin Ayling]

I'm glad to see Roger Helmer's support for this post, he is too modest to mention the Reinstate Roger campaign.

Cameron's position on EU-withdrawal advocates on the front bench places him in a dangerous position -- we could see a gradual abandonment of the party for UKIP if he allows so little wiggle-room.

[Ken]

William “Try reading Compassionate Conservatism. There are plenty of clues there.”

I am afraid we do not want clues, we want action.

The arguments I have seen here for the Conservatives not standing on a platform of leaving the EU boils down to: the media and opposition parties would lie about Conservative motivation, they do that in any case.

It is time the Conservative party started to address the media bias at its root, so far all Mr Cameron has done is to adopt a media friendly approach, or rather an approach which is acceptable to the media, that is why he is having an easer time, but a media friendly approach means rejecting basic Conservative values and telling lies about his intentions with regard to the EU once elected.

So the argument for the Eusceptic is don’t rock the boat, David Cameron is Eusceptic and will do the right thing once he is elected, only until he is elected he will lie about his policies to keep the media at bay.

To be honest this does not sound like the sort of person I would want running this country. If Mr Cameron were truly EUsceptic he would start to lead the party and the country in that direction, as he is not doing so, it is quite clearly the case that this s nothing more than an attempt to keep EUsceptics within the party quite until after the election then they will just be ignored.

[niconoclast]

Electorates don't read between lines and search for 'clues'.This is clueless.Clear unequivocal messages win votes.Remember when the tories did that in the 80's? They were rather sucessful then...

[Paul Marks]

The line that the E.U. means peace is a deliberate confusion of the E.E.C., E.C., E.U. with N.A.T.O.

Germany (even if it had wished to) was not strong enough after World War II to launch a World War III (its loss of population and land was far greater than in World War I) - so the idea that Germany had to be tied to France in order to preserve peace is simply nonsense.

The threat to peace after 1945 was not Germany, it was the Soviet Union - and the E.E.C., E.C., E.U., was nothing to do with keeping the Soviet Army away.

As for Britain and the present leadership of the Conservative party, the situation is rather worse than has been described.

It is not just that Mr Cameron is hostile to anyone who wishes to get Britian out of the E.U. - David Cameron is opposed to taking any power at all back from the E.U.

Before Mr Cameron became leader about the only power the Conservative party was pledged to take back was over fishing.

Mr Cameron soon ditched the proposal to get out of the E.F.P. and the "Conservative" spokesman on fishing from the European Union Parliament called the idea of getting out of the E.F.P. (getting out is even supported by ASDA and other establisment concerns) "facile" (B.B.C. Radio 4 - only a few days ago).

Getting out of the E.F.P. would not touch all the other powers the E.U. has over national life, but even this small move was too much for the leadership.

Our "treaty obligations" to hand over unlimited power to regulate most areas of life to the E.U. must be respected.

So there we have it. A treaty once signed can, according to the leadership, never be denounced and the nation having had its liberty signed away can never have its liberty restored.

This is an absurd position (even more absurd than the leadership's pledge to greatly increase government spending on the "public services" even over the vastly bloated levels that Mr Brown has ordered). No one can, in good conscience, vote for us whilst we maintain this position.

[Mandy Worrall]

How to exercise choice was the question (I have been busy, so forgive the delay). The answer is easier than tied politicians(those with vested interests in party structures), would have us believe. Encourage those within the community who have nothing between themselves and common sense (Like having to please a hierarchy and be dependent on it to rise through the ranks, even though it may not care for the little people in it or those they are supposed to serve). Vote independent! If we are not getting what we want, we can use this very valuable route to democracy without some party line gatting in the way. Prevent the BNP from filling the gap, because the public, increasingly do not know what else to do. News flash! One can be a patriot, non rascist and democratic and do it as an Independent without the need for a party. Independents can squeeze the right choices out of councils. I urge all who care about this country to start now.

[Alan.]

Excellent, Philip. Very well said!

[Hugh Williams]

Philip Hollobone need look no further than the House of Lords for what he should do next. There he will see that Lords Pearson of Rannoch and Willoughby de Broke have decided that they would rather live honestly with their consciences than dishonestly inside the Tory party. So they have joined UKIP. Philip should do the same - he wouldn't be alone for long in the Commons if he did. Such action would be a far more effective way of saving his country than continuing to support a party that, for the past thirty five years, has been hell-bent on destroying it. A good career move, Philip!

[Lindsay Jenkins]

Congratulations to Philip Hollobone MP for his principled stand against the new empire called Europe.

As an elected legislator he will be more aware than many that his job today is as lobby fodder for thousands of Brussels’ laws. Brussels is now the source for over 80 per cent of all our legislation.

How do his colleagues sleep at night knowing, as surely they must, that they are mere knaves for Brussels?

[Mike Smith]

A brilliant piece by Phillip Hollobone but one which begs the question "If he believes this why is he still in a Party that is commited to our continued membership of the E.U.?"
Whatever its faults UKIP remains the only party committed to withdrawal from the E.U. I confess some of our 'antics' have been generated more from a passion for our cause than by mature political reflection. But we are learning and still growing. And we are still the only ones giving the electorate the opportunity to register their disillusionment with the EU. If all BOO supporters united behind the UKIP banner we would soon be out.
Of course, those who say if the Conservatives (or any of the old 3 party coalition) were to adopt a policy of leaving the EU UKIP would be finished are absolutely right. Hurrah! I would be able to put my feet up in front of the telly and stop trudging the streets delivering leaflets.
But let's face it, that is simply not going to happen at least until the Conservatives have another massive defeat in a General Election. Have you not noticed how Opposition Parties are always far more 'Euroseptic'. It is a very different story when they get into Government.

[Douglas Denny]

So. Mr Hollobone wants to declare for "Better Off Out" does he?
I note Norman Tebbit has done the same recently. All very convenient now the Conservative Party is under the hammer from UKIP, haemorrhaging their members' support as they wake up to the truth of the damage the EU does to Britain (£30m a day of taxpayers' money going to the fraudsters of Brussels).

Where were these Tory MPs when Britain fell out of the ERM when it was obvious then (if never before) the ridiculous damage that the "European Project" was doing to Britain - and forever damaging the Conservative Party into the bargain! showing them to be a grossly incompetent party incapable of managing the British economy?

I have observed the Conservative Party and its stance to the EU (and EEC previously) for thirty years. I was a Conservative Councillor too for four years. I left with the Single European Act in 1985. I could not stomach the hypocrisy of belonging to a party whose first and foremost policy for centuries had been the upholding of the British Constitution, but selling-out the sovereignty of Parliament by agreeing to qualified majority voting in the EEC over-riding a British veto in British affairs - which prevents the British people from direct democratic control of their own desiny in the laws made for them.

I have said it a thousand times to anyone willing to listen:

The Conservative Party is as fully committed to full integration into the European superstate (which is still gestating) as the rest of the main parties. The only difference is they hide this fact very well. They lie through their back teeth to keep their supporters on board at elections.
I cannot understand how it is so few can see the truth of this particular Conservative Party emperor having no clothes.
If you doubt this statement then look at the ACTIONS of the Conservative Party over the last 30 years and NOT the rhetoric.

They still peddle the lie of "wishing" or "intending" to change the EU into something different than that which it actually is ....knowing full well all the time this is impossible - even in the long term because of the very way in which the EU is structured. They have conned the British people in the past thirty years and are still doing so. They will not change until staring political anhililation in the face at the ballot box.

The Tories have merely modified the crass, ludicrous official policy of "being in Europe but not ruled by Europe" of William Haig, into the equally crass and ludicrous Cameron policy of "being in Europe but changing it into something we like a bit better".
Always though, and note, the official Conservative policy is - "we must remain in the EU" !
WHY ??? for heavens' sake when the damage of doing so is as obvious as the nose on your face.

If Mr. Philip Hollobone MP really believes in what he says, then there is only one course of action for him to morally and sensibly to take - that is to resign the Conservative Party whip, immediately cross the floor of the House of Commons out of the Tory fold and declare himself the first UKIP MP.

He will make his mark forever more in the annals of history as the first MP declaring for the good of his Country - instead of for the weak, sclerotic dinosaur party to which he presently belongs and which is selling our soveregnty and heritage along with the British people down the river.

Two Members of the House of Lords have had the courage of their convictions and declared for UKIP ... the time is ripe for an MP in the Commons to do the same.

So how about it Mr Philip Hollobone MP ?
What is more important to you and your conscience? Your Country and the British people? or the miserable Conservative Party and your own short-term gain?
Do you want to go down in history as a mere footnote in the lists of unpreposesssing boring MPs along with the thousands of others gone before; - just another Quisling MP selling out to the EU? or a striking heroic figure of a politican who had the courage to say "enough is enough - no more!"

Your call !

[Frank Moran]

The thought of our country being assimilated into a soviet block style with European central control ought to make everyones stomach churn. The world has moved on since the end of WW2. Trade is world wide, not just within Europe. Defence is a National issue best considered within the borders of a Nation. What role did the EU play in the break up of Yugoslavia? What benefit has the UK derived from unregulated immigration?
One only need to look at Norway to see it is quite possible to trade with our European neighbours without being consumed by them. UKIP is the only party which offers a commonsense answer the mass of British people are looking for. Trade with Europe by all means but bend our knee to them-- never.

[Adrian Peirson]

I believe the reason we have movement encouraged within the EU, such as Britains being allowd to Settle abroad, France Spain Etc, the reason we have Mass Immigration into Europe, against the wishes of the Indiugenous Populatois, and the Suppression of National Identitties is to Wipe out the Indigenous Populations of Europe...within 50 Yrs most of AngloSaxon Whites In Europe will be Minorities within their Own Countries...the Europhile Socialist MP's of Europe are engaged in the Ethnic cleansing of their own Peoples in order to Marginalise them so that ultimately all that will be left will be a Vast Sea of MultiCulti Europeans and A Vast Communist Style European SuperState....
The Socialt Givts of the EU actively suppres yte sheer Carnage, death and destruction, Mass Gang rapes being carried out All over Europe by their Imported Voters...Ken Livingstone recently said, that Muslims were more likely to be law abiding than Non Muslims, Keith Best said that Immigrants made better Citizens than the British and Jack Straw said that the British were not wort savig as a race, Please stop the demonisation, & Widespread rape and Murder of the Indigenous White AngliSaxon European Peoples.. that are supressed by their Governments.....

http://www.iamanenglishman.com/rogues_gallery.php?PHPSESSID=792bfdc9d044437f59e62276f1398bfb

http://www.newnation.org/NNN-UK-Europe.html

http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_evil/muslim_rape/index.htmlhttp://www.saveireland.blogspot.com/

http://www.vivamalta.org/main/

http://www.newnation.vg/forums/showthread.php?t=95898

[Brit Pat]

The Iron curtain is about to fall again, and this time, we are on the inside..

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865

Call me slow but I now realise why Our Passports went from those Impressive black ones to what can only be described as a little red book' all those years ago...

[Ian Parker]

Always a topic to generate lots of debate. Some interesting things do emerge however. Obviously, the EU, as it is today, is a very different animal from the EEC at the time of our joining. Similarly, the UK is a different type of basket case.

I am intrigued by the obvious non-sequitur attached to the notion that the majority of voters are ‘anti-Europe’, yet David Cameron is desperate to mask any Euroscepticism within the party, ostensibly to present what he sees as a more favourable image to voters.

Our continued role in Europe is clearly a fundamental issue. It is plausible to let democracy decide via referenda on the key issues, up to and including continued membership. This is a proper stance to take and should, in theory, be a credible cross-party platform. Nothing stops the Tory party from taking this stance.