Ken Clarke rejects English Parliament

Former Chancellor Ken Clarke, Chairman of David Cameron's Democracy task force, gave evidence to the Commons' Justice Select Committee yesterday.  The Committee is taking evidence on the impact of devolution.  Within his evidence he said that...

• The Conservatives had been mistaken to oppose devolution in 1997;
• That an English Parliament was unnecessary;
• He would be very surprised if the Tories did not propose an answer to the West Lothian Question in their next manifesto;
• That his task force would recommend a solution to the WLQ but that it would probably be different from that recommended by Sir Malcolm Rifkind.

In his evidence Mr Clarke cited the fact that it was the votes of Scottish MPs that ensured that English students would have to pay top-up fees.  If laws kept being imposed on English voters by Scottish MPs there was, he said, a real risk of damaging the Union.

He briefly explained why he was against an English Parliament:

"The average Englishman thinks that they have got a Parliament which is the Westminster Parliament and I think resentment could perfectly well be sorted out so long as we could tackle what I regard as this niggle that sometimes English matters are setlled against the majority of votes of the English MPs.  This English Parliament would be quite a dangerous remedy to that because it will just take a little step further this sense of separate identity."

Comments

[David Belchamber]

The Conservative and Unionist Party should do nothing to undermine the Union; Blair has already caused enough trouble by not foreseeing the consequences of devolution (same with HoL, Iraq etc).

Let us see what Ken Clarke has to suggest to meet the problem that he quite rightly mentions:

"..this niggle that sometimes English matters are setlled against the majority of votes of the English MPs".

[Iain]

So according to Clarke English people have to remain constitutionally second class citizens for the well being of the British state, that doesn't set a good precedence, not when the interests of the state are put before the equality of its citizens.

As for English people seeing Westminster as their Parliament, tell that to the voters in Berwick upon Tweed who voted to secede from England, not because they didn't see themselves as English, but because of the rotten job Westminster MP’s have done to protect their interests, their equality, and the public services available to them compared to what the Scottish Parliament has won for their citizens.

[Malcolm Dunn]

I wonder if we'll get get a flood of outraged comments by English Democrats posing as Conservatives as threads on this subject often do.
It's a shame Clarke didn't give some detail on how he was proposing to answer the WLQ.It does need to be answered fully and soon.

[michael mcgough]

Ken Clarke has long rejected the Westminster Parliament in favour of the EU one.I recall he wants it to become a council chamber------ for the regions formerly known as the UK,and stuffed with too many 'social workers'

[Iain]

"I wonder if we'll get get a flood of outraged comments by English Democrats "

Though I have let my Conservative party membership expire, I haven't yet joined the English Democrats. Cameron's Conservatives limp, feeble, inadequate, response to this and total failure to challenge Labour's discrimination of English people has been a issue I find exasperating, and yet another instance where we find we have no opposition. If the Conservatives fail to deal with this issue, and adopt what will probably be a feeble policy proposed by Clarke, then the impetus for me to join another political party will be that bit stronger.

[deborah]

student fees
healthcare
residential care for the elderly
etc, etc......

It is more than just a niggle. Ken Clarke is out of touch.

[The Tory Troll]

Why wouldn't Berwick want to be part of a country run on solid Socialist principles?

[jaymason]

How about English votes for English MP's Scottish votes for Scottish MP's and United Kingdom (union votes) for United Kingdom MP's that should start the labour party screaming as I feel that would slash their majority somewhat

[Dave B]

I believe the Direct Democracy proposal is to devolve equivalent powers to those held by the Scottish Parliament/Welsh Assembly, to the county council level in England. I very much like that idea myself.

[The Tory Troll]

Conservative carping over the 'niggles' of the devolution settlement is just a smokescreen. Everybody knows that the only reason Conservatives want an English Parliament is because it would make it easier for them to get into power.
Sorry for stating the blindingly obvious, but all this posturing from some people in the Tories is painfully transparent. There are some legitimate concerns of course, but I think that Ken probably gets the scale of them about right.

[englandism.com]

'I wonder if we'll get get a flood of outraged comments by English Democrats posing as Conservatives'

Ummm...I have fought for Conservatism tooth and claw and continue to do so despite utter exasperation with the current toothless, clueless, interpretation of the aspirations of middle England.

The middle ground Cameron cherishes and identifies as the route to power via the margins of the Midlands has little resonance or relevance in middle England and, indeed, has alienated those of us that traditionally formed the Conservative's core support.

Ken Clarke: Et tu, Brute?

[Stephen B]

Despite the recent renaming of the Scottish Executive to the Scottish Government, it should be understood that what we have constitutionally is the devolution of powers to Scotland, not the relinquishing of power to Scotland. Schedule 28 (7) of the Scotland Act 1998 makes it clear that this arrangement does not affect the power of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to make laws for Scotland.

In short, while the WLQ still exists, so does the capacity for English MPs to make laws for Scotland, even against the wishes of a majority of Scottish MPs. The current arrangement is not as one-sided as may often be portrayed.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

All we need to do is to ensure that Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh MPs leave the Chamber when votes are only on English matters.

[Dontmakemelaugh]

I wonder if we'll get get a flood of outraged comments by English Democrats posing as Conservatives as threads on this subject often do.
It's a shame Clarke didn't give some detail on how he was proposing to answer the WLQ.It does need to be answered fully and soon.

Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | Wednesday, February 20, 2008 at 09:30

Any "posing" has been done by Clarke (he stated in 1996 that he would be happy to see Parliament have all the powers of a parish council in relation to the EU. If I have got that wrong then please correct me). For many years he and his fuel escalating cronies have posed as Conservatives. The real Conservative and Unionist Party were quite correct in opposing devolution. I am sure that Clarke does not think for one minute his remarks will influence the Scots to vote Tory. He hasn't given any detail on WLQ because in IMHO he couldn't care less because it wont effect the "Common Purpose" of the Consensus Parties at Westminster regarding worshiping the EU and all its works. Clarke is enough to make you not wont to vote Conservative - thereby aiding the Revenge for Thatcher/Culloden/and affiliated Polygamy Party led by Brown.
If Cameron had any sense he would promise us an English parliament. Draw your own conclusions as to why he does not.
To Malcolm Dunn: I am not yet a member of the BNP of the English Democrats - but there is plenty of time and the likes of Clarke and the insipid Cameron are pushing us that way.
Clarke believes that the party that calls itself the Conservative & Unionist Party was wrong to oppose Blair's cynical devolution of Scotland - so why not drop the "Unionist" bit (and some would argue also the Conservative " bit).

Principalities are not so much conquered as surrendered - Read Mark Steyn.

[Sam]

Do catch up! UKIP have had the West Lothian answer for yonks now:
http://www.westbournemouthukip.com/docs/West%20Lothian%20Answer.pdf

[Anyone like to play gambling]

Remember the head of state of this country is English born and bred so this victim complex some English nats have is insane. She is also the head of state of numerous other big and small nations

[I hate the UKIP]

The UKIP are a disgrace they want to take away a parliament that the people of Scotland voted for they have no right to do that. They talk about the EU taking away democracy when it does not, then they actively boast of how they will tyranically remove a parliament form scotland. They are the worst type of english people. They make little Englanders look like Ken Clarke.

[UKIP are mad]

You UKIP have I repeat no right to take away the scottish parlimanet who the heck do you think you are. If you do you would start a civil war you people are nutters.

[Ian McKellar]

I am in many ways an admirer of Ken Clarke but have very strong reservations on his pro-EUSSR views

However on this I wonder if his beliefs on the desirability of an English Parliament is more coloured by the European idea of splitting England into nine regions (which was also a nulab idea)
As it, the Parties should agree a convention already put into practice by SNP and Conservative MPs that Speaker should f necessary declare whether a bill is a UK or WEnglish bill and if so by agreement, only English MPs should vote on it
.

[englandism.com]

'Remember the head of state of this country is English born and bred so this victim complex some English nats have is insane.'

Oh Dear. She is German by descent but by the by. We had the Stuarts too for a bit leading to something happening in 1707.

The Queen has the executive power of a small bowl of fruit. Gordon Brown, does the executive thing 'round herabouts and his nationality is......?

[AlanofEngland]

All we need is an English Claim of Right, followed by a referendum, that PRECISELY follow the wording of the Scottish equivalents, no more and no less. We are apparently a democracy!! yet there is a democratic deficiency for we English. I am apparently a "sour little Englander" according to Cameron, who is a Scot!! Well, were the Scots "sour little Scotlanders" when they had their day? I really admire the English Democrats for their manifesto, I would support them if they were to stand in my constituency, no problem.

[No way redwood]

14:08 The queen is English, so will the next king and the one after that be English. She was born there just as her ancestors were. She does not even speak German. She is English. The English have a head of state who runs numerous nations she has the right to remove a PM. To offer who should run the country if there is a hung parliament and she has numerous powers over magistrates courts, tax issues. You should read up find this out.

[Alex Swanson]

Cameron's Conservatives limp, feeble, inadequate, response to this and total failure to challenge Labour's discrimination of English people has been a issue I find exasperating, and yet another instance where we find we have no opposition.

Well said.

[Alex Swanson]

"The English have a head of state who runs numerous nations she has the right to remove a PM. To offer who should run the country if there is a hung parliament and she has numerous powers over magistrates courts, tax issues."

The monarch's powers exist only on paper, as a curb on the true executive. You are making the same mistake James II made.

[englandism.com]

'You should read up find this out.'

I have. According to a certain retail emporium owner chappie the Queen is a vampire, or possibly Frankenstein's monster, and randomly bumps off her subjects, and allegedly, relatives.

Is this the sort of executive authority that you describe?

And the actress off Eastenders who plays Phil's mum is really called Barbara von Richthofen and has a mark II Tiger tank.