Scottish Tory leader supports cross-party Commission to discuss 'Stage Two' of devolution

Highlights of Annabel Goldie's contribution to Holyrood debate on ten years of Scottish devolution and why Scottish Tories are joining with the LibDems to back a new Labour-inspired Constitutional Commission.  The Commission's website sets out four main aims:

1. To ensure that any proposals for constitutional developments that affect Scotland are fully debated and decided in Scotland.
2. To examine how the proposals of the Power Inquiry for more participative governance could be implemented in Scotland.
3. To clarify the constitutional implications of various forms of relationship with other countries of the UK.
4. To prepare the broad outline of a draft Constitution for Scotland.

There are two approaches to Scotland's constitutional status: "The minority Administration, comprising the Scottish National Party as the Scottish Government, seeks independence; the majority presence in the Parliament, comprising the Labour Party, the Scottish Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, supports our continuing partnership with the United Kingdom. The minority view—the SNP view and the nationalist conversation—is all about tearing up our constitution and ripping Britain apart. My desire—our desire and the majority desire—is to build on what we have and take it forward."

Devolution is good for Scotland, independence would be harmful: "During the Scottish Parliament elections, I argued that being part of the United Kingdom opens doors for Scotland, that it gives us influence in world affairs and that that influence, if wisely exercised, gives us authority in world affairs. At the same time, devolution has responded to our country's desire for a greater say over its domestic issues. As a Scottish Conservative, I am driven by an overarching goal of creating a strong and prosperous Scotland within a strong and prosperous United Kingdom. I am driven by what unites us in these isles, but the nationalists are driven by a desire to divide the nations of the United Kingdom.  Rejecting independence is not anti-Scottish or unpatriotic; it is quite simply wanting the best for our country. I say clearly to Alex Salmond—wherever he is—that the Scottish National Party does not have the monopoly on Scottish patriotism. It is a proud and deep emotion, shared by millions of people outwith the Scottish National Party. Our saltire and the lion rampant are the symbols of our nation, not the badges of nationalism."

On working with Scottish Labour and the Scottish LibDems to defend majority support for the Union: "This tripartite agreement is significant. Strengthening devolution while continuing to secure the position of Scotland within the United Kingdom is not just an honourable but a highly important commitment. It is bigger than any one political party, because it dwarfs party politics. We are talking about shaping the constitutional direction of travel of our nation for the future, not just because it is sensible and pragmatic to do that eight years on, but because it overwhelmingly reflects what Scotland wants to happen.  Today's debate gives Scottish parliamentary breath to that overwhelming public aspiration. I thank Jack McConnell for his initial support of the process and I thank my counterparts, Wendy Alexander and Nicol Stephen, for the constructive discussions that have brought us to the stage of agreeing the need for an independently chaired commission to review devolution in Scotland."

BBC: "MSPs decided by 76 to 46 to set up an independent Constitutional Commission to consider more powers for the Scottish Parliament."

Comments

[HF]

So what we had no ideas of our own?

[Scotty]

HF, can't you for once be constructive on a thread about Scottish politics? All we get from you is snide doom laden comments which add nothing to the thread!

[Ken Stevens]

"As a Scottish Conservative, I am driven by an overarching goal of creating a strong and prosperous Scotland within a strong and prosperous United Kingdom"

"Rejecting independence is not anti-Scottish or unpatriotic; it is quite simply wanting the best for our country."

"Strengthening devolution while continuing to secure the position of Scotland within the United Kingdom is not just an honourable but a highly important commitment."

Commendable, honourable and patriotic words by the leader of the Scottish Conservative Party in support of her nation and I genuinely wish her well.

I eagerly await a similar statement by her counterpart, the leader of the English Conservative Party on behalf of my nation of England. Oops, silly me, there isn't such a party or leader, as opposed to a general UK one.

[John Leonard]

Ken Stevens:

Indeed, well said. Of course we are the race that dare not speak its name.....

HF:

Is it some new government bureaucratic requirement that we post in triplicate?

;o)

[David McEwan Hill]

Some "constitutional" convention this! By specifically excluding the Independence constitutional option which is as popular as any of the other constitutional options available to Scotland it is reduced to a joke. It will be known as the "anti-independence convention" and is doing the SNP's work for it.
What the siully unionists are doing are providing the polarisation in Scottish politics that the SNP needs. It is not left against right in Scotland politics anymore. It is unionist against nationalist now and will be so until the SNP wins. In each of our ostensibly unionist parties (Labour, LibDem and Tory) there is a significant proportion in favour of Scottish independence. This appears to have been overlooked.

[Dale]

Am I the only person that is sick of hearing about scotland?

Scotland decided to have its own parliament and its own goverment, so why should we care anymore?

We have next to no influenence in scotland, the scottish have no interest in us so why are we wasting our time and energy?

Why should we continue to fight the battle that we have clearly lost?

[Matt Wright]

None of this seems to be actually about helping ordinary people on the ground, whether its the nationalists stirring things or the Unionists reacting with worry. Less and less people are voting because there is less and less local accountability and democracy. Devolution under Labour has been a complete botch job that has set people against each other. Real devolution to communities would provide for real needs and restore peoples faith in the system being able to do something for them. It is one thing to be proud of the place you live, quite another to be nationalist which edges into the realms of our tribe is better than yours. Therein lies a backward march for humanity.

[HF]

Scotty, maybe when the Scottish Tories start polling 30%+

Seriously, it does not look like a party led by the female version of Ming is going to enthuse sizable numbers of Scottish voters.

[Alan]

I'm not sure that the Constitutional Commission website you've provided a link to Editor is the same one that was launched last week by the three Unionist parties.

Canon Kenyon Wright and co's website/organisation was launched months ago and so far as I know (besides having the same name) it's not linked to one just announced, which precludes consideration of independence as an option and does not, so far as I'm aware, go anywhere near as far as advocating a Constitution for Scotland.

I will watch with interest to see what the Unionist parties' commission comes up and look forward to the body submitting their proposals to the more inclusive National Conversation.

Wendy Alexander has spoken about the possibility of areas such as welfare being devolved and the Barnett Formula being replaced which would be a pretty radical steps even if Scotland remains in the Union.

I wonder if it's devolution that's "a process not an event" to use Dewar's words, or if what we're actually seeing is independence in process.

I think the dream of the gradualist nationalist is coming true. Devolution phase two will make the leap to independence that bit smaller and easier to take. Once you've got de facto independence- or soemthing approaching it- Scots will be more inclined to ask: why not just go to the whole hog? In the end I think the emotional pull of Scotland as an idea will win out.

[Ken Stevens]

Alan Sunday, December 09,22:18
"In the end I think the emotional pull of Scotland as an idea will win out."

I fully agree. But politicians, of whatever major party, will continue to stick their heads in the sand and proclaim staunch Unionism, so that the break-up will be long & acrimonious rather than swift & convivial.

England is like a spouse that does not suspect that the partner is restless with the marriage and will be ever so taken aback when the divorce papers come through the letterbox.

[Alex Swanson]

I actually grew up and was educated in Scotland during the 1970's and 1980's and watched the Conservative retreat during that time.

If anybody thinks that the way to deal with the problems there is simply to dig a channel along the border and cut the place adrift, you're kidding yourselves. The problems there are the same problems the Conservatives face in England, just exaggerated. Refuse to face these problems in the north and you will only have to face them in the inner cities in England. And like it or not, Scotland may seem remote but it's still a big place with lots of people in it. Bolshie as they might sometimes be, it really is better to have them inside the tent than outside.

[David McEwan Hill]

I wonder what Matt Wright thinks of the fact that there were 59 Independent nations in the UN in 1945 and now there is 192 (soon to be 193). "A backward march for mankind" or the normal nature of things in which self respecting national groups throw off the dead weight of colonialisation and dependence and take full responsibility for their own affair.

[Matt Wright]

Hi David, many of those nations (I think you refer to old empires etc) have done absolutely the right thing and its great to see them moving on, albiet sometimes falteringly. I'm not sure there is a direct parralel with the UK though. My comments referred to the unpleasant extremes of nationalism in politics in the sense that it overshadows the real needs of communities.

Its nice to see the Scots having two bites at devolution before we get the offer of one.

[ulster Tory]

'In each of our ostensibly unionist parties (Labour, LibDem and Tory) there is a significant proportion in favour of Scottish independence'
wouldnt surprise me in the case of Lab or Lib but not so in Tories

[David McEwan Hill]

On a costituency wide poll we commissioned last spring 67% of Labour supporters,just under 60% of LibDem supporters and slighly over 25% of Tory supporters who responded said they would vote for Independence if they were polled on a dual option question.We are aware that those who replied to the survey may have been to a certain extent a self-select pro- independence section and that Argyll and Bute is not entirely representative of Scotland as a whole.
The electors here are rather less inclined to mindless tribal adherence to one party or another for instance. They are also much more reflective, by definition rather more what might call "traditional Scottish" and as the survey we sent out was fairly extensive we believe we got a decent cross section of those more interested and involved in the political process and much liklier to vote as a result.
The figures above were extracted from nearly 2500 responses.I am informed by a Parliamentary contact that the Tories in the Scottish Parliament contain in their abbreviated ranks a proportion who would prefer Independence to the present devolved settlement and this proportion is much bigger than anyone imagines. Dependent status hardly sits well with traditional Tory belief in sturdy self-reliance. All the Scottish Unionist parties will eventually split on this issue and I believe the Tories will be first to do so.
Matt Wright. I recognise you did not intend to be offensive but the implication of your initial post could be taken that way. Do you imagine that arguement would be widely applauded in England if someone suggested that England and France would be "stronger together" and that England should be ruled by a Paris Parliament. Among other nations I was referring to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Iceland, Slovakia, Serbia,Croatia, Montenegro etc etc etc etc.