Louise Bagshawe: Football clubs must pay to protect rail passengers from yobs

Louise Bagshawe wants clubs to protect travelers from football hooligans.

It’s tempting to write another anti-Labour column today, but the words “fish” and “barrel” spring to mind. Instead I thought I might explore one aspect of the social responsibility agenda; what football clubs ought to be doing about hooligans on public transport.

David Cameron’s early speech on flexible working suggested that politics had a duty to change the culture; to change how businesses contribute to society, other than making profits, through exhortation and not regulation. A light touch is the Conservative way. Certainly, Cameron has had great success with this; environmental progress like biodegradable plastic bags on the one hand, and national attention to the issue of sexualised children’s clothing on the other. On a morning when it looks likely that football will be hitting the headlines for all the wrong reasons, I thought we might examine ways to encourage football clubs to increase their sense of social responsibility. Football is a game at the heart of our national life. The legendary Bill Shankly once said “"Football is not just a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that". Back in the bad old days, of course, there were a few occasions when football hooligans regrettably did use the beautiful game as an excuse for their ugly violence, and made it very much a matter of life and death. Thankfully, those days have long gone from English football. But there’s still a fair way to go. And one way I think football clubs could show a strong sense of corporate responsibility is by contributing to prevent anti-social behaviour caused by fans after the game.

I’m thinking particularly of safety on public transport.

Early last summer when I was heavily pregnant and I still hadn’t managed to sell my house, I was commuting up and down to Northants on a regular basis. I took several trains on Saturdays and encountered louts drunk from various football games on them. Invariably, they would make the train an unsafe environment for the general public and in particular, women and children. I will not forget the time when, eight months pregnant, I was standing in a train when the football fans boarded. They shoved their way into a first class carriage at the end of the train, laden with drink and separated from the rest of us by thin glass doors which they wedged open. Two families with children were sitting right in front of them. The train was packed; those families were trapped. The louts started to slosh their cans of Tennants around. They shouted and swore loudly. ‘F------ this, c----- that.’ The other passengers looked at each other nervously, hating it, but the men were edgy and dangerous looking. I had two small children of my own and couldn’t have borne having them exposed to such hateful behaviour. It was probably very stupid, but I confronted them. I asked them why they were acting like that in front of little kids. They argued – shouted, swore, they were just having fun. They stood up and I was quite frightened I was going to get glassed, but not being the sort to back off confrontation, I asked them if their mothers were proud of the men they’d raised and if they’d be such big men out of the football shirts and in their jobs on Monday morning. I asked what their families would say if they could see them now and would their bosses be impressed. At that the older men looked a bit shamefaced but the younger ones were having none of it. ‘F---- off,’ one of them said triumphantly, ‘you fat bitch.’ I shouted at him ‘Fat? I’m pregnant, you utter moron.’ The train, thank God, then slid into a station and I got off with the two families with young kids. A few passengers came up and said nice things to me, but I was shaking with adrenaline and fear. It was thoroughly unpleasant.

Last week I had the wonderful experience of becoming a godmother, and took a train home from Somerset after the ceremony in order to get back to my children. It was Saturday again, football time again. This time the louts were banging on the door of the snack bar to get to the alcohol, cursing out a Dad and calling him gay because he was only buying tea; I bought a sandwich and went back to my seat. I passed a seated group of fans giving a hard time to a woman ticket inspector, middle aged, just trying to do her job and cope with nine or ten drunken men. Clearly this woman was in no position to enforce any security. A couple of the drunk yobs followed me back to my carriage. They abused the family sitting in front of me, then came and stood next to my seat. “Hello, my sexy little trollop,” said one (direct quote: beer goggles were evidently on). I ignored him, whereupon he said something utterly obscene that I’m not even going to write out with dashes.

Where was the guard on this train? Where was the guard in the summer? Well actually, I don’t blame them for not being around. One man, even young and fit, couldn’t have coped with the hooligans; it was probably dangerous for me to confront the first lot. Football fans get drunk, and it’s better that they take public transport home than that they drive. But other members of the public traveling at the weekends – families with children especially – have a right to feel safe on the trains and coaches.

Wouldn’t it show great corporate responsibility for football clubs to offer to pay the costs of some British Transport Police on the trains most likely to be taking their fans back, or to work with the rail companies to provide security? These men harass women, swear, shove and indulge in yobbism because they can; because there are no consequences. Nobody’s there to stop them. With crime as with sickness, prevention is better than cure. I do not advocate a punitive tax or charge on premier league clubs. But I do think that football clubs, with their colossal profits, need to be encouraged by politicians to look at the secondary costs they inflict on non-fan society and to do their best to ameliorate those effects. Stepping up to make the trains safe and pleasant again on Saturdays would be a great start.

Comments

[Chad Noble]

Graeme,

Should the Train Companies pay the football clubs compensation if delays get fans to the ground after kick-off?

[Louise Bagshawe]

Gareth, I once lived in Holloway Road and supported Arsenal for a couple of years, but I haven't had time to follow the game properly for a while. Maybe when the kids are bigger!

I must protest though against you saying that I am stigmatising football fans. A large number of families on the trains ARE football fans. It's the yobbish minority that ruin it for the majority. The father being abused (homophobically) for buying tea was wearing the same strip as the man shouting at him.

As I said above we're talking about the right of "the general public and most law-abiding football fans" to travel free from fear. And as I also said, more normal fans could enjoy away games with their families if clubs were to voluntarily help protect travelers from the small but dangerous minority who act like louts, physically threaten and sexually harass.

[Tony Makara]

Louise, what day exactly did you travel and what local fixture took place that day? Was it a pre-season friendly because you mention it was in the summer? If so it might be an idea to write to the clubs involved to tell them of your experiences. Often pre-season summer friendlies are between league clubs and non-league clubs, it could be that if the fixture was against a non-league side the police might have thought it not worth policing, even though a non-league club can often bring several hundred supporters.

[David Belchamber]

You were very brave, Louise, to confront these hooligans and as others have pointed out this is a problem that stems generally from a combination of alcohol and football hooligans who have no respect for anyone, whereas a combination of alcohol and rugby fans rarely has the same unpleasant consequences.

A few years ago I was playing cricket on a ground just outside Bournemouth's football ground and three cricket games had to stop and wait as footbal fans streamed across the cricket pitches (escorted by a few police), rather than make a slight detour and walk round the path.

The whole process was repeated at the end of the football match, with empty cans chucked on the cricket ground for good measure.

Before and after football matches police should be on duty at stations and arrest anyone behaving as badly as Louise describes. Fans should not be allowed onto trains carrying alcoholic drinks and trains should not serve them.

Police should be on duty on such trains and football clubs should pay for the extra cost of policing.

[Joe James Broughton]

The fact is football fans (and more specifically English fans) are likely to be like this.

I have never seen any trouble at a rugby match - or on a rugby train - atall.

[Gareth Knight]

Thanks for the reply Louise and there are very few people who would justify abuse of your own side!

If it is down to clubs to pay for extra policing then surely the same could be said for other groups that need extra policing, even if it is only a minority?

The clubs do not encourage bad behaviour, for example, when my team, Grimsby Town play away from home, the club works with the police from Grimsby and the police from the destination. There are always Humberside Police present at away matches and there are usually police present on the trains going back home, particularly if it was a highly emotive match.

In the 80s the PM was told by some clubs that far from the clubs needing to sort out their hooliganism problem which was damaging the community, it was the government and the police which needed to sort out their hooliganism problem which was damaging football.

I am quite sure that some would consider the presence of a Conservative conference in their town to be a major issue - lots of drunken people around the streets, policing on a level like they've never seen, all because the nature of politics means that some loons get cerried away on the inside and some other loons get carried away with the thought of attacking us from the outside. In that case, surely it is the responsibility of the Conservative Party to pay for all policing and security when they have a conference?

The Conservatives don't want drunken ya-boo public school boys or terrorists yet they attract them, just as the football clubs don't want drunken homophobic sexist yobs yet they attract them.

This has to be a police matter, not a football matter. Besides, almost all clubs outside the top 10 or so are broke!

[RobC]

I thought that the clubs pay for police and security inside the ground.

Personally I have never had any problems travelling on public transport on match days. I'm glad that supporters are using public transport rather than cars.

There are a lot of football fans in this country (both armchair fans and those that go to games). I would suggest that any policies seen as anti-football would lose more votes than they gained.

As a Brighton fan, I'm sure that the policing bill for the annual party conference(s)/TUC costs Sussex Police as mich a season of Brighton & Hove Albion games

[Tony Makara]

Its very difficult for the police to keep track of a group of fans who travel independently from the main bulk of supporters. So its a bit unfair to blame the police for not being on the ball over this. Football games get asigned a category by the police for the potential for violence, for example Liverpool Vs Man Utd would be a top category game, that is the most likely to produce violence. Of course the violence is most likely to occur well away from the ground itself. For example a couple of years ago during a Liverpool Vs Man Utd cup tie the united player Alan Smith broke his leg and as he was taken away to hospital the ambulance was attacked on route by so-called Liverpool supporters. So the potential for violence is often too widespread for the police to control. Some of you might remember back in the 1980s that Luton Town banned away supporters altogether, although that would not be a realistic option. It doesn't help the situation that many games are now played on a Sunday due to SKY-TV, and that kick-off times have become unpredictable.

[Gareth Knight]

Tony, with talk like that the 'understand don't condemn' brigade will suggest that hooligans should all be given watches, TV guides and subscriptions to Sky Sports!

[Gloy Plopwell]

I suffered a very nasty incident on a late night train with football fans teasing me.
We should bring back the death penalty.

[Andrew Smith]

If the headline is a fair summary of the article I don't want to read it. I have already paid for the police to maintain order why should any private sector enterprise have to pay again.

It is wrong for causes of lawlessness to be identified, case by case, and bills sent to businesses which the authorities decide are assiociated with it. Why bill the football clubs and not the drinks sellers, brewers or the train company.

[Tony Makara]

Gareth Knight, I think this is fundamentally a social problem and football provides the infrastructure to vent the violence that would otherwise be expressed in other ways. Most town centers are pretty violent places Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Most of the violence is caused by the under 25s and most is spontaneous and alcohol related. However I think the hooliganism attached to football does have a culture all of its own, it is not spontaneous and is often not alcohol related. Hooligans prefer to have a clear head and to have their wits about them if they are getting involved in fights with other seasoned hooligans. I would suggest that those who hassled Louise and the other passengers were not hardcore hooligans but most likely yobs attending a game. The hardcore hooligan firm is more likely to keep its head down and not attract the attention of the police by wasting their energy on ordinary rail passengers because they want to be able to go toe-to-toe with other real hooligans. There are codes of conduct and behaviour among hooligan groups and thats why it was a shock to hear that women and children were being harassed because that is not 'acceptable' behaviour in hooligan culture.

[Louise Bagshawe]

actually, the "must" was not put in by me but was the headline assigned to the article. I do not think it should be compulsory. That's centralising government instead of social responsibility.

[Tony Makara]

Louise the fact that you say one of the abusers was wearing a football shirt tells me that the yobs you encountered were not real hooligans. The real hooligan never wears a football shirt and is more likely to be found in very expensive casual clobber. This could be a reason why the yobs you encountered were not monitored by the police. The police know who the real hooligans are, the ones with form, and they try to keep track of them as a priority. The one's you met Louise were certainly yobs going to a football match but not hardcore hooligans. That could be why they were able to go undetected by the police.

[Andy D]

Football clubs already pay a lot of money for policing, in many cases far more than is necessary owing to police forces up and down the land fleecing clubs for extortionate costs.

They will react very badly to being compelled or even asked to pay for something that is not their problem, is totally outside their control and that is already covered by existing laws.

I go to away matches on the train quite often supporting a mid-sized northern club and very rarely see (and of course never cause) the problems Louise highlights, though I accept the anecdotal evidence that they occur. The police have existing powers to deal with this, and should. Likewise the railway companies.

One partial solution, mentioned above, is to bring back the Football Special.

[John Leonard]

Louise,

You obviously have had some dreadful experiences on the trains. However, it seems rather dubious to blame football clubs for the actions of a few thugs who choose to wear shirts of that club. You actually say:

I must protest though against you saying that I am stigmatising football fans. A large number of families on the trains ARE football fans. It's the yobbish minority that ruin it for the majority. The father being abused (homophobically) for buying tea was wearing the same strip as the man shouting at him.

And that is exactly the argument football clubs would use against your idea. As you state it is not a football issue, it is a social issue. How can it be their problem when it occurs on someone else's private property and is caused by a symptom of an underlying politically recognised problem for people in this country - i.e. our broken society.

Furthermore, would you also apply this to the other transport services in London, Manchester, West Midlands and Liverpool areas? They are equally at risk, if not more so. What about motorway service stations too?

Chad Noble quite rightly points out, its not the Football Clubs responsibility, its the transport companies responsibility.

Furthermore, as you admit above, it is not a football issue, but an issue with a certain group in society with a deranged mindset. Is it not then a Social Justice issue?

Perhaps you should complain to the railway company instead of blaming the football clubs. They should be made to provide adequate security on their trains (adequate accomodation would be nice too). As part of that they are quite within their rights to refuse to transport people should they so wish.

The return of football specials is a sensible intermediate solution which would also allow the police at the destination to be better able to control the crowds in transit to the stadiums.

You could also encourage further provision of dedicated transport (coaches etc.) through official supporters clubs and so forth to reduce the problem but asking football clubs to cough up hard cash for additional publicly provided security outside their locality is the wrong approach. After all is it not primarily the away fans that travel?

Whether the clubs should contribute to their provision of dedicated transport seems reasonable but ultimately thats a matter for the transport companies and the football clubs to decide.

In the meantime, on the back of the Social Justice Report you might want to consider what else can be done to improve these people's behaviour and improve mutual respect and how this anti-social behaviour can be stopped from being passed on to further generations?

It is not enough to treat the symptoms, you need to treat the disease.

Lastly, to do away with your primary justification for charging the football clubs. Do not confuse turnover with wealth. The vast majority of football clubs are not wealthy (some owners may well be) and many would suffer if they were expected to subsidise the security for transport every Saturday for 9 months of the year.

[Lucy]

Louise's proposal wouldn't dent football clubs' profits. It would just bump up the price of my season ticket.

[Troubador]

Congratulations, Louise, on a monumentally stupid idea. Let's remove personal responsibility and instead penalise whichever poor club some mindless moron who prefers violence to sport has chosen to support.

Instead, on train travel, I would prefer an apology from the Conservative Party whose policy on privatisation has done so much to sod up my life as a commuter. I now look forward - this year - to a 10% ncrease on my ticket from Kent to Canary Wharf with absolutely no corresponding improvement in service.

[Joe James Broughton]

A New Labour/Blunkett mode idea.

I'm a rugby man and don't care much for the (English) football atmosphere, but it's totally unfair to pile the burden on football clubs for the behaviour of a minority. (Just as it's unfair to blame pub owners).

Actually, I think people who are motivated by a sport are less of a problem than the knife and drug culture, where there should be harsher penalties, and where the Government (and the LDs) are soft.

[Matthew Oxley]

Louise - I suggest you read up on the Hillsborough disaster, and maybe football culture if you are not familiar with these aspects.

Simply trying to police football fans (especially drunken ones) isn't always the best way - if anything it creates a target for them to fight or abuse.

Treating football fans as a group causes even more problems.

The simple fact is that there are plenty of disruptive and dangerous people on Public transport at all times, and a PCSO on a power trip, or a few more poster adverts warning us all not to do something won't work.

Deal with criminals individually by having a strong criminal justice system, and reinstall the will to intervene in people.

If we channeled just a fraction of the advertising money spent on telling us all (mainly decent upstanding people) not to steal, vomit in the street, avoid a tax etc into adverts imploring decent people to stand up and confront the people causing havok, we'd see an almost instant positive change in our society.