When SHOULD we panic about knife crime, then?

Two months ago, I pointed out that the teen murder rate in this country was running at over one a week.

As Sam Coates points out, we have had an even higher rate of fatal stabbings since then, and it's getting worse.

Back in May, Libby Brooks wrote an article in the Guardian with a premise one can gather from the phrase with which it was flagged on the Graunidid's front page - "stop panicking about knife crime".

Well, Libby, should we be panicking now..?  And if not, when?

Comments

[Samuel Coates]

Murdered London teenage number 18:

A 16-year-old boy called out for his mother as he lay dying after being stabbed and beaten in south London.

Shakilus Townsend, from Deptford, south-east London, was beaten with a baseball bat and repeatedly stabbed in Beulah Crescent, Thornton Heath.

Residents dragged him into the communal doorway of their building and tried to stem the flow of blood with bath towels after Thursday afternoon's attack.

But the teenager died in hospital shortly after midnight.

[Alexander King]

To be honest, if you're not 16-25 and don't get embroiled in drunken slanging matches down at the local Wetherspoon's, then you're probably pretty safe.

[Norm Brainer]

yeah, all those 16-25 year olds should being 16-25 so they don't get stabbed.

[Alexander King]

Read the second clause of that sentence, No Brainer.

[Dave J]

Alexander, as a prosecutor in south Florida, I know that one can dramatically reduce one's odds of being assaulted and/or murdered by 1) being above the age of 30 and 2) not dealing drugs, either by buying or selling. But that doesn't people outside these categories are "safe," just somewhat more safe in a relative sense. It certainly doesn't mean we can all sit on our hands and declare the status OK enough to do nothing.

[Alexander King]

I'm not saying we should do nothing. I'm saying that there's no need to panic (see title of thread).

Btw, you could probably add a third category into your list: not being black.

[JuliaM]

"Btw, you could probably add a third category into your list: not being black."

Like Ben Kinsella. Or Rob Knox. Or Jimmy Mizen.

Oh, wait.....

[Dave J]

It's a factor, but it's orders of magnitude less important than the first two. The vast majority of crime victims I've been involved with as a prosecutor have been young and involved in some way with drugs. The majority of them have been white; a slightly but not very disproportionate minority percentage have been black.

[Alexander King]

Fair enough, Dave J, obviously I don't know the situation in Florida. But I do know, contrary to the tiresome interjection of JuliaM, that a vastly disproportionate number of the youths killed in the UK this year have been black.

[JuliaM]

"...contrary to the tiresome interjection of JuliaM.."

Yes, it's terribly, terribly tiresome when the facts are not as you have depicted them, isn't it?

[JuliaM]

Here's a thought - perhaps when the toll of dead black teenagers first began to mount, perhaps something should have been done then?

It seems people were a little too quick to say 'Ah, well, it's not a problem for me'.

Because now, it IS. It's not remaining in those areas and demographics that made people feel safe. Now, it's if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now, even Cherie Blair is reportedly beginning to worry for her kids.

Too little, too late.

[Simon Newman]

I'm getting pretty annoyed at all these murders. I don't expect London to be safe, but I don't expect it to resemble a war zone, either. The political and bureaucratic elites have completely abnegated their responsibility to protect the people.

[Dave J]

"I don't expect London to be safe..."

Substitute New York for London and it could be the words of any average New Yorker, roughly 1965-1992. Why SHOULDN'T you be able to expect to London to be safe? Screw Boris: I think Londoners need Rudy Giuliani as their new Mayor.

[Alexander King]

JuliaM, having clicked onto your rather strange website, I suspect that you are being deliberately obtuse in order to seek attention.

[Simon Newman]

Dave J - it is getting to feel like New York in the '80s, here. You're right of course.

[Steevo]

"I think Londoners need Rudy Giuliani as their new Mayor."

There's a lot to that in establishing the right priorities. Bad guys have to be understood as just that, bad guys. There cannot be tolerance, especially somehow diverting blame... with one exception: political correctness. It has been taking its toll, even to a damaging extent with Brit police. I read a story in the Mail Online yesterday about a white man convicted of racial abuse after making a 'honky' jibe at white security guards. What a complete waist of taxpayer money, court and police resources. It is time to get the house in order, kick Nanny out, and a load of people be held accountable.

[Ed]

Surely the elephant in the living room when it comes to these teen knife murders in London is that as far as I am aware, every single one so far this year appears to have been committed by a non-white suspect or suspects.

For reasons of political correctness this has been skirted round. It has been observed that most, but not all, the victims have been non-white but the fact that all the perpetrators were has hardly been mentioned.

[JuliaM]

"I suspect that you are being deliberately obtuse in order to seek attention."

Not at all - I'm pointing out the false premise you posited, that in order to avoid being stabbed, it helped to be 'not black'. That doesn't hold true for the latest crop of high profile murders, does it?

Neither Rob Knox, Jimmy Mizen or Ben Kinsella were. They weren't involved in drugs either, so far as we know from the paper reports.

You were spot on with the ages; I guess one out of three isn't bad...

And frankly, if people had made more of a fuss and demanded a crackdown when it WAS mostly black drug-involved teenagers stabbing each other, we might not be in the state we are in now.

[JuliaM]

But, don't take my word for it - try any of the police blogs. In fact, try this one:

http://nightjack.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/the-redundancy-of-courage/

[Dave J]

Julia, the problem with your throwing those names is precisely the fact that they are "high-profile" murders, when most aren't. They are therefore by definition atypical.

[JuliaM]

"Julia, the problem with your throwing those names is precisely the fact that they are "high-profile" murders, when most aren't."

That's precisely the point I've been making, actually. Why have the others not been so high profile?

Because people like Alexander King have read the news reports and ticked off the 'young male, black/mixed race, involved in gang/drug trade' and effectively said 'Whew! Not going to happen in my area'.

And, as people take the attitude that it's not a matter for them, and the police feel no pressure to crack down, then the casual violence and knives as a first resort has spread, to the point where now the youngsters being killed (and I hate the term 'wrong place at the wrong time') are not from the 'expected' demographic.

And now people like Cherie Blair, Linda Robson etc are screaming about it. Now there is pressure to treat it as a priority. Now it's been brought home to them that, yes, indeed it IS a problem for them...

And now is too little, too late.

[Johnny Boy]

Is this subject a deflection for the wars we've raged in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Britain has never been so safe. Crime has dropped nearly 30% recently. Knife crime, while terrible, effects nobody but the gangs involved and whilst I'm behind reducing violence it pales into insignifance when you consider the civilian deaths we've involved ourselves in abroad.

This matter has been blown out of all proportion. Get your principles, priorities, and policies right at national level before we micro-manage a few local communities.

[JuliaM]

"Knife crime, while terrible, effects nobody but the gangs involved.."

Thank you, Johnny Boy, for proving the point I was making in absolutely spectacular fashion...

You see, the three names I mentioned - Rob Knox, Jimmy Mizen and Ben Kinsella - were not in gangs, though the probably were victims of gang culture. So I think their grieving families may take exception to your comment somewhat, as I suspect will anyone reading them.

The two security guards stabbed by a shoplifting gang in broad daylight yesterday on Oxford Street probably weren't in gangs either, yet they were affected in somewhat brutal fashion.

Still think it 'effects (sic) nobody but the gangs involved'...?

"Is this subject a deflection for the wars we've raged in Iraq and Afghanistan?"

I think we need a new term (like 'Godwin') for the person who tries to shoehorn the war in Iraq into a totally unrelated discussion! Are you certain you don't want to blame global warming instead...?