Fisking Dan Hannan's declaration of support for Barack Obama

Dan Hannan MEP is a great man but I just don't get his support for Barack Obama.  Read his latest full blog for yourself but see below for a fisk of five of Dan's assertions:

DH: "In defiance of many of my friends, most of the people whose opinions I respect and almost the whole of my natural constituency, I’m for Barack. It’s not a very comfortable position for a Conservative."

Too right you shouldn't feel comfortable Dan!  Barack Obama is THE most liberal member of the US Senate.  He's to the left of Ted Kennedy.  The next US President will almost certainly be elected alongside a Democrat-controlled Senate and House of Representatives.  With Obama in the White House they'll move America's judicial system and tax rates in a very unconservative direction.

DH: "At present, America finds herself derided and traduced, often by the countries with most cause to be grateful to her. This dislike is focused on the Iraq war, and personified by George Bush... The fact is that the simplest and most immediate way for America to restore her name is to elect a politician who consistently opposed the invasion."

This argument is superficially attractive but the issue of whether you supported the Iraq war or not is yesteryear's argument.  Today's argument is about whether America finishes the job or it pulls out in defiance of the views of General Petraeus and America's commanders on the ground.  Much of the world will cheer Barack Obama if he pulls the troops out quickly but those cheers will turn to jeers if the pre-surge chaos resumes.  On 10th January 2007 Barack Obama said the surge would worsen the violence in Iraq.  He couldn't have been more wrong.  John McCain, in contrast, was arguing for a surge from near the beginning of the Iraq war.  Rumsfeld and Bush ignored McCain for too long.  The idea that Barack Obama will restore America's standing in the world is based on the false premise that the world will respect an America that does what multilateral institutions like the UN and EU recommend.  My belief is that the world is more likely to respect an America that is strong and doesn't walk away from its responsibilities.  McCain is experienced enough to be Commander-in-Chief.  The same can't be said for the first term Senator from Illinois.

DH: "An Obama victory would put the Farrakhans and Sharptons and Wrights out of business, falsifying their narrative of race relations in America."

The idea of a black President is indeed a wonderful prospect and it would send an electric message to Black Americans as well as across the world.  I'm not convinced that Obama is the real deal.  He's testy when cross-examined and there are some worrying signs that he's not as much of a uniter as his early rhetoric suggested.  He's been a member of a church which has been led by an incredibly divisive pastor - as divisive as Sharpton and Farrakhan.  This pastor married Barack Obama and baptised his children.  He was originally meant to speak at the launch of Obama's presidential bid.  Obama also appears out of touch with ordinary American values - the "bittergate" controversy was powerfully exploited by Hillary Clinton and at one stage reignited her doomed campaign.  He has also been very partisan in the Senate.  Unlike Senator Clinton he has hardly worked with Republicans.  Winning support for his presidential race among Democratic superdelegates appears to have weighed most heavily on his mind during his short Senate career.  See David Brooks for much, much more.

DH: "Obama feels more of a Brit than his rival. His Kenyan father had a classic Anglosphere outlook. His grandfather served with our forces in Burma. He is a West Ham fan."

There's nothing bankable here Dan although I can envisage a great photo opportunity with President Obama on his first UK tour spending a couple of hours at Upton Park alongside Iain Dale.  I don't believe Barack Obama feels strongly about the UK.  If he did he might have given Britain one tiny mention in his big foreign policy article for the Foreign Affairs journal.  He didn't and please see below for the real worry...

DH: "McCain, whom I like and admire, is, by contrast, quite an extreme Europhile. For me, that’s the clincher."

I don't like McCain's support for the EPP either but do you really think that Barack Obama will be any better?  Take the two men's attitude to that other 'great' multilateral organisation - the United Nations.  Barack Obama has called for America to rededicate itself to the UN's mission and organisation.  He didn't quite say he wanted America to be at the heart of the UN but he might as well have done.  John McCain, in stark contrasts, wants to radically challenge the UN by forming a new League of Democracies.   McCain may be wrong on the EU but he has better instincts on the dangers of transnational bodies.  With a little help from Prime Minister Cameron I think it's more likely that we can make John McCain a Eurosceptic than will be possible with Barack Obama.

Comments

[Alex Deane]

agreed on all points, Tim.

[YMT]

Afraid I agree with Dan Hannan, America needs a change, America got badly stung but then Bush went overkill and took a shovel to the bees nest. The Republican party in terms of its social policies is just way to the right and too conservative for me. And the whole war on science really annoys me with the whole creationism, religion, evolution, abortion, evangelicals stuff.

[Alexander King]

"The idea that Barack Obama will restore America's standing in the world is based on the false premise that the world will respect an America that does what multilateral institutions like the UN and EU recommend".

No, I think it's based on the premise that symbolism can sometimes count for more than substance. And on this, I think Dan Hannan is right.

Look at Cameron. He has completely turned around the popular perception of the Conservative Party not through great substance but through stylistic devices such as digging trees and simply being pleasant.

There is always the temptation for politicial afficionados to look scornfully at popular movements. We like to cut through the rhetoric and wish that the rest of the world would do likewise.

But that carries the danger of completely missing the boat.

The world is in love with Obama. It mightn't last but, in all seriousness, what more could a pro-American want than to see such a universally admired man take his seat in the Oval Office?

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

It's good to see the xenophobes fighting each other! Go McCain!

[bluepatriot]

The other real worry with B O is his protectionism.

[Tony Makara]

Neither Obama or McCain have the right intellectual credentials to be president of the United States. I am worried that Obama likes to play to the gallery and wouldn't miss an opportunity to showboat when in office. The last thing the world needs is the naive temperament on the nuclear button.

I am very concerned that John McCain's foreign policy objectives will become too one dimensional, a strong leader certainly, but a measured leader? McCain is clearly a man who puts attrition ahead of pragmatism. Would he have the diplomatic skills? The problems of the middle-east will never be solved by unwavering support for one side, can McCain deliver peace in the region by objectively appealing to all sides?

In difficult economic times McCain seems to lack any coherent strategy, for this reason McCain should enlist the support of Mitt Romney who not only understands the need for a balanced economy but also sees the great danger of a Sino/Russia/Indian bloc emerging as a bulwark against NATO.

The next four years are going to set the pattern for the next fifty years. The American economy has to be buoyed, its energy needs have to be met, a paradigm has to be set for the middle-east and the emerging strategic partnership of Russia and China has to be broken up, ideally by bringing Russia to the western table. Can either of these men cope with the heavy responsiblity of such imponderables? Or are both locked in their own subjective policy bubble? America and the world needs a man with a greater scope than either McCain or Obama.

[Douglas Carswell MP]

In what way would a McCain victory be a win for conservatism?

1. McCain opposed tax cuts. (He said America couldn't afford them, but that's what people who want the government to keep hold of your money always say).

2. McCain wants to appoint the "right kind" of judical activists. But isn't judicial activism per se the problem?

3. McCain thinks "Americans should welcome the rise of a strong, confident European Union". So much for dealing with supranational quangos.

No matter who is in the Whitehouse, long-term that agenda means conservatism loses.

[Tim Montgomerie]

I don't know if you are trying to be funny but I object to your cavalier use of the word "xenophobe" Justin. I neither fear nor dislike foreigners. Let's avoid personal attacks here please.

[Andrew Woodman]

Throwing words like 'xenophobe' around Justin says more about you than it does about Tim and Dan. If you oppose powers being taken away from this country and being handed over to an unaccoubtable body that makes you a Democrat.

On topic, both men seem to have major drawbacks. Which would be the least worse, I simply couldn't say at the moment. The campaign will be very interesting.

[Buckinghamshire Tory]

In this election, John McCain should be the natural candidate for any Tory. Barack Obama is a big government Liberal (in the American sense of the word), who have consistently voted with the Democratic left.
I view Barack Obama as some sort of 2nd incarnation of Jimmy Carter, just without the military experience.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

OK, I withdraw that discription of you only. Not the other one, though.

[Andrew Bradley]

Why do most people think Obama is so wonderful? Someone on the radio compared him to Kennedy which was meant as a compliment. He is similar to Kennedy - all talk and so substance. Who is old enough to remember Kennedy's comment 'I am a Berliner'etc - absolute nonsense.

Obama has proved himself to be quite good at speeches but hopefully his rhetoric/ideas will now be examined in great detail.

Whilst now hypothetical if I had had a vote in the presidential elections, I would have voted for Clinton but given the choice I would now vote for McCain. I just feel Obama has something of the bull ....... about him.

[MartinW]

From what we have learnt of Obama's likely political stance were he to reach the White House, the outlook is not encouraging. High marks for rhetoric, but where is the substance? As for putting Sharpton et al "out of business", I very much doubt it.

[Libertarian]

Neither McCain nor his party are conservative. They are big government liberal interventionists, just like neo-cons who have destroyed the Republican's fiscal conservative record.

No sane conservative could for party that run up a multi trillion deficit as a result of fighting an illegal that was promulgated on a huge lie. No sane conservative could support a party that has smashed its citizens constitutional rights and liberties with obscene Orwellian legislation like the Patriot (sic) Act.

There is an alternative to both Obama and McCain - former Republican Congressman Bob Barr. It was Barr who led the impeachment of Bill Clinton. He favours small government, low taxes and a speedy withdrawal from Iraq.

SEND A REAL MESSAGE TO THE FASCIST NEO-CONS AND THEIR STOOGE McCAIN. VOTE FOR AND/OR SUPPORT BOB BARR - LIBERTARIAN PARTY CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT!

[John Wilkin]

Justin, you may disagree with Daniel on certain issues, but I fail to see how you can possibly call him a xenophobe. He was born in Peru, writes a regular column for Die Welt, he's a bullfighting enthusiast. A dislike of the EU does not equate to a dislike of foreigners, and no-one demonstrates this better than Daniel Hannan

[Philip]

I agree with the Ed (and thank you for expressing yourr view). I find it beyond comprehension that any conservative should support someone so left-wing and liberal as Obama. However perhaps Dan Hannan's view is coloured by the problems of our membership of the EU, and thus is turned off by McCain's support for the EU and EPP etc. But as the Ed points, out McCain has better instincts on the UN. I wonder if in the long term the UN might turn out to be a greater threat to the nation state, and national sovereignty and freedom than even the EU. McCain is far from perfect but would be preferable to Obama.

[John Leonard]

I agree with Tim. Can anyone here explain to me how a high tax, big government, terrorist appeasing liberal elitist like Obama is going to benefit this country or the Conservative cause in general?

When you think of Obama, think Tony Blair.

When you think of an Obama / Clinton (or any other of the usual suspects) ticket think Blair/ Brown.

Sad to see that the usually admirable Doug Carswell and Daniel Hannan have such a one-dimensional superficial grasp of what the impact of McCain losing will be?

Given the Bush failures, a 'conservative-lite' approach from McCain might be the best answer.

Unfortunately, I can see the teenage idle worship of Obama and his ra-ra cheerleaders (on both sides of the Atlantic) in the media winning the day and that will be bad for all of us.

[Dontmakemelaugh]

In what way would a McCain victory be a win for conservatism?

1. McCain opposed tax cuts. (He said America couldn't afford them, but that's what people who want the government to keep hold of your money always say).

2. McCain wants to appoint the "right kind" of judicial activists. But isn't judicial
activism per se the problem

3. McCain thinks "Americans should welcome the rise of a strong, confident European Union". So much for dealing with supranational quangos.

No matter who is in the Whitehouse, long-term that agenda means conservatism loses.

Posted by: Douglas Carswell MP | June 04, 2008 at 17:26

Well, Mr Carswell MP I could frame the following:

In what way would a Cameron victory be a win for conservatism - apart from being nice and presentable (would he be allowed to be one)

1 Cameron opposes tax cuts

2 What is Cameron going to do about our own judicial activists?

3. Cameron thinks "Britain should welcome the rise of a strong, confident European Union". So much for dealing with supranational quangos.

No matter who is in the House of Commons, long-term that agenda means conservatism loses (seeing as how we will remain governed by the EU).

So there we are - if you would vote Cameron then you must support McCain and I do (I am not so sure about Cameron yet) but not quite for the reasons above. The West needs a man with the nerve to face the foreign policy challenges that await. I believe McCain is the man.

[niconoclast]

Barak Osama is a socialist muslim change agent who emits vacuous superfluities.If they paid people for spouting melifluous nonsense he would be on top dollar.No way ever would Americans vote for this Elmer Gantry figure.Not fit to be a rat catcher....

[John Moss]

Obama appears to be very-left wing. In US terms.

He may have positioned himself there to win the primary race against a more centrist Clinton, as the votes he needed were from a Democratic Party membership/core vote, generally more left wing than its elected representatives, but his pronouncements on protectionism, sonofabitch, but our sonofabitch foreign policy and a high tax, high spend federal Government all point to either defeat, or a one term presidency at best.

[Doug]

I'm with Dan on this one but I have to say his reasons are particularly weak.

What is wrong with Obama being protectionist? It stands to reason. After all would have to jealously guard the interests of US citizens not UK citizens. Many times I've read on Centre-Right and ConservativeHome lambasting the current governments limped-wristed defence of our interests. How can any one complain about that with a straight face?

Also if Obama is going to be labelled ultra-liberal from his voting record then you can't complain when McCain is labelled Bush's third term because his record last year was 95% in agreement with Bush (even flip-flopping in his anti-torture position) and 100% voting record the year before that.

Also someone has to do something about the healthcare crisis in America. WE take for granted the NHS but would deny more comprehensive coverage for US citizens. McCain is in complete denial over this issue but ironically is the beneficiary of the kind of world class healthcare available to only a select few.

I have no problem with Obama-Blair comparisons. Like it or not Blair took the Labour party to the right and legitimised many of the Conservatives achievements. If a truly leftist Labour party had won in 97 we really would have been dead. Obama over many years has worked across the aisle on policy areas that also were political divisive.

I have simply had enough of the Republicans as they are now. They need to change. They need a break from controlling the White House just as they have lost Congress to re-evaluate just as the Conservatives were tired and stale in '97. The GOP need to get back to their roots and look at incorporating a few of the more sane libertarian ideas coming from Ron Paul and Bob Barr. I will not blindly support their candidate without asking whether or not I agree with his policies.

[Michael A]

The 'most liberal' thing is rubbish. It's based on a year when he barely ever voted.

[YMT]

niconoclast that's just offensive, go back and live under that rock you call home.

[nimblehippo]

Will be a good thing for the States, and then the republicans will claim power back again - he's not as liberal as you make out. I would argue that the Republican party is the natural party of government, and every now and then it cedes power to the dems as it inevitably fails to deliver - i can think of far worse democrats to see in the whitehouse, and the significance of Obama being who he is, is huge for the U.S.

[Andrew Ian Dodge]

He hangs out with terrorists, Jew-hating ministers and convicted criminals (Rezco just got done)...guess Dan likes Obama because he reminds them of the MEPs he spends his days with every day.

My respect for Hannan has gone down considerably.

Won't he look foolish when Obama goes down in Mondale like flames.

DMML: And McCain has fought for his country, been a POW and has accomplished things. What exactly has Cameron done that is even close?

John McCain will win and will continue the War on Terror, he will finish what George W. Bush started in Iraq, he will no doubt have some interesting arguments with the Democrat led Congress - this may well lead to pet projects of each being dropped and might actually lead to smaller government. Milton Friedman believed that one party controlling the White House and the other controlling Congress actually lead to the best government because on many issues they stopped each other doing things.

[Paul Courchane]

"Obama over many years has worked across the aisle on policy areas that also were political divisive."

A bald-faced fabrication. Find some evidence of this and I'll take back those words.

[Paul Courchane]

And another thing...

"WE take for granted the NHS but would deny more comprehensive coverage for US citizens"

Is this the same NHS which produces a new horror story literally every single week? No thanks, you can keep it.

[Sammy Finn]

It's easy to overestimate the importance of a black figure as President. Condi Rice has had a very marginal role in restoring the US' image. Policy is most important.

[Ewan Watt]

As much as I have issues with McCain to say that he's not a conservative is just mind boggling.

Sure, his rationale for opposing the tax cuts can at time sound a little ludicrouos, but he was absolutely spot on when he said that America had a spending problem. In fact, you could say that he was right after all. Although revenues are at a record high, Bush's reluctance to use his veto pen on appropriation bills has unleashed an unprecedented burden on the American tax payer. Thus, spending and the size of government has been the problem.

On judicial activism, you're right. However if McCain believes 'right' judges are those who protect the constitution then I don't see how these individuals could be 'activist judges'? An activist judge is surely an individual who votes along political lines, contrary to the word of the constitution.

On McCain's views on the EU - it might be worth noting that American has encouraged EU integration for decades. Even two years ago SoS Rice said she would vote for the EU Constitution! I guess it also depends what McCain meant by a "strong, confident EU". Surely a union of confidence is one that is run with the consent and approval of the people?

[Malcolm Dunn]

Perhaps this debate will be more useful in a few weeks time when both candidates will be forced to explain their policy ideas far more explicitly than they have had to do during the primaries.
I believe that both the Republican and Democratic parties have made the best choice they could and look forward to an interesting election campaign watching two honourable men fighting it out.
As a Briton my primary issue concerns American protectionism, if Obama advocates this then I hope he loses.

[The Ghost of Tony Makara's Sanity]

"Barack Obama is THE most liberal member of the US Senate. "

Are you getting your words confused again, Timmy? I think you meant to say 'left wing'.

[michele]

I read comments posted in your Telegraph on line article. It is always interesting to read information from other countries about your own. I found some misinformation regarding both US Presidential candidates. Sen. Obama is not a muslum or a socialist. Sen. McCain is not highly regarded in the Republican party base. Ms. Palin has brought on much of the disrespect given(re: foreign affairs.."we can see Russia from Alaska") and Sen. Biden has had quite a few gaffs. None are free and clear. Sen. Obama is inexperienced however with all the economic problems, due in major part to deregulation done in mid 1990's and around 2003, we have to make changes. We are spending $10Billion every month in Iraq. We simply cannot continue. I am a Republican however I will be voting for Obama. From what we hear in America, most of the world does not like us because of our agression and lack of cooperation with other countries. I do not see Sen. McCain doing anything to change that and he was a major supporter of the deregulation in our banking and financial systems.
Best to all of you.