"Special relationship dies under Gordon Brown"

Quite a sad piece in yesterday's Sunday Telegraph about the decline in the special relationship between Britain and America.

The term "special relationship" is no longer in use at Britain's Washington Embassy.  One British diplomat told Sunday Telegraph journalist Tim Shipman that the term wasn't much of a career enhancer.

The new British Ambassador to the USA "frowns on the phrase".  Meanwhile Gordon Brown hasn't had dinner with America's Ambassador to Britain since becoming Prime Minister.

Gordon Brown (who hasn't spoken regularly to George W Bush) prefers to work with EU allies rather than focus on the transatlantic relationship.

The world is a safer, stronger place when Britain and America are close.  It will be a terrible tragedy if Brown's lack of interest in foreign affairs undermines important historical ties.

Comments

[Doug]

The problem is Tim that though I agree with your final paragraph the special relationship also resulted in catastrophes like invading and occupying Iraq. Britain should have a more pragmatic approach to the special relationship. The Americans don't really give a toss about it and are happy to ignore it at their convenience. We should keep that in the back of our minds and when the big decisions arise not be afraid to go our own way.

As the graphic for your post perhaps illustrates the special relationship is really only of value when there is a president and PM who are prepared to fight for their respective corner (Blair excluded from Maggie and Churchill).

[NW Supporter]

That is sad, and I do believe Britain works better with America than it does with the EU, but I don't believe that any lasting damage will be done to the special relationship, just because of Brown.

Brown isn't the sort of politician like Churchill, Thatcher, or even, dare I say Blair. When he loses the next election - everyone - including America, will remember him and his policies as a mere footnote.

When they think of Britain, they'll think of Churchill, Maggie and Blair - not Brown.

[Steevo]

I think most in the US will always think of Britain as nice smiles and an attractive accent but it would help to heal from "Poodle Dog Blair". Americans more politically conscious may be more inclined to think of the Brown era as weak-kneed. Maybe a shot in the arm to strengthen our relationship is some of that old-time bold dry humor.

[thibaud]

Permanent interests, not permanent friends (to quote an Englishman). Asian century now, and Americans, a rapidly increasing number of whom are of Asian or Latin American descent, are turning toward that region that offers the most challenges and opportunities for us this century.

The end of the special relationship was inevitable, given the end of the Cold War and with it passing of the Euro-centric world. If we're to overcome the sheer weight of hard cold interest and restore the transatlantic bond, those of us who care deeply about America's European heritage or Europe's emulation of American ideals will have to figure out ways to end this idiotic transatlantic pissing match and rebuild our alliance.

A few suggestions:

1) tone down the rhetoric and remind each side's berserkers that we have **far** more in common with each other than either of us does with our neighbors to the south.

2) recognize that we can each learn from the other's distinctive approaches to the challenges of asian competition, ie US-style labor flexibility and EU-style social provision, or US entrepreneurial brilliance and EU infrastructure, or US excellence in university education and EU excellence in primary and secondary education.

3) encourage our governments to do everything possible to facilitate the largest possible number of cultural and student exchanges, at the secondary, university and post-university levels.

4) find ways to cooperate to leap forward in development of renewable energy technologies so we can both say goodbye to the oil-exporting bandits and thugs who dominate the Arab, Iranian and Russian regions.

[linda]

I think it's just posturing. Brown thinks it's to his political advantage right now. If it proves to be otherwise, he will say something different.
I doubt it will be much noticed over here because he has not pierced the American conscienceness and there is no immediate global emergency.
If an emergency does occur for the UK, I can't really see him looking to Spain, Italy, Germany, or France for serious help. Actually, I'd kind of like to see how that request would be answered given Europe's yeomen's job in Afganistan. (that's a Yankee joke)

[*-JEM-*]

Don't kid yourself, folks. Your perceptions seemed skewed, perhaps by the self-flagellating US media and too-loud Daily Kos fringe. Be assured - the Americans who live in what's disparaged as 'flyover country' (and incidentally, who now reliably decide Presidential elections) keep track of our friends - and of passive aggressive insults from weak sisters like Brown.

Now, there's a tremendous resevoir of goodwill towards Britain. But if Britain truly doesn't value the 'special relationship', if you've decided the great grandsires of Vichy and Himmler are better bets as allies - good luck to you. We'll cash in our chips, collect our troops, and you can 'go your own way' without the 60 year American security guarantee impeding your path.

There's always the Aussies and the Indians

[linda]

Jem, I think you overstate the case if you are trying to take the temperature of US, UK relations.
The US has largely just written off Europe as any kind of ally and are concerned that the UK has forgotten your own history and why Western Civilization is important, and are you going to be Sharia or Sunni over there. There is concern about Londonistan.
We, of course, hope you "don't go all wobbly on us", but I don't think that long term Brown will matter any more than any number of limp PM's or presidents. Maybe Brown is your Jimmy Carter. Gawd! Good luck, if that's the case.
It is true that if you actively stab us in the back, "Fly Over Country" would be incensed but even Brown can't be so stupid as to think a close relationship with Italy and Spain and against the US would be in the UK national interest.
If you move toward European socialism and pacifism and basically defeatism, you will have gone several isms to far to maintain yourselves. I really hope that doesn't happen.

[Jim Rockford]

This is inevitable, since Britain is more America's enemy than friend.

Britain is filled with jihadi nutcases and lunatics, who plan to attack America from Britain. Britain is a post-Christian, pre-Sharia country that is in transition to being ruled by Muslims. As such it's hostage to lunatic Muslim extremists who are the enemy of the US (and freedom itself).

Simply put, Britain is lost to the West. Irretrievably. Britons do not believe in much of anything, except Islam and Sharia. They don't share the fundamental values of Americans (freedom, liberty, individual concience and freedom of speech). Britain plans a massive DNA database of "pre-criminal children." With Sharia "inevitable."

Those two Orwellian bits alone show how Britain is not anything but an obstructive enemy to the US, like France. More surrender monkeys to quote the Simpsons.

Really, America IS alone though allies of convenience such as India, perhaps China and/or Russia in some limited deals, might sometimes prove useful.

Good luck Britain! You'll need it.

[MarkJ]

Hmmmm, given Britain's declining white birthrate and church attendance, I'm willing to wager that Westminster Abbey will be a mosque within the next 50 years.

Question of the Day: If Gordon Brown decrees there will no longer henceforth be a "special relationship" between Britain and the United States, who's going to save y'all from yourselves? America did it in 1917 and again in 1941, but three times may not be a charm the next time.

[linda]

So, gentlemen, I can see we have all read Mark Steyn's book. High-five!
Maybe if we all sing "Rule Brittania" England will rouse itself from the drug of multiculturalism and remember their very special place in world history.

Note to Brits: Do you people even remember all the good you did? India would be still be a cultural backwater. Good Grief. Man UP!

[Marianne - New York]

Downplaying any special relationship has more to do with separating Britain from its own heritage rather than from the United States. America's laws are rooted in English common law and the "Special Relationship" is based on our common heritage back to Magna Carta, on our shared belief in the rule of law and the consent of the governed. If we are connected by our laws then that connection will weaken as British law is devalued along with British sovereignty.

[thibaud]

Steyn's demographic analysis is utter crap. Euro-muslim birthrates like all urbanized birthrates are SLOWING, and the vast majority of Euro muslims aren't even religious to begin with, more like the muslim equivalent of casual Christmas 'n' Easter observers. On top of which the vast majority of immigrants in places like Spain or Sweden or from neighboring or co-lingual *Christian* nations.

Britain does indeed have a problem with some Pakistani muslim immigrants, and there's no shortage of PC foolishness uttered by Church and Crown and other worthies in the UK, but the UK is extremely strong and resilient. Especially economically. We need more convergence between the US and Europe, not less. Keep your eyes on the ball.

[linda]

Tell ya what, Thibaud when the UK stops polygamy and paying for the "Asians" to have multiple wives and children on the dole, get back to us.
Mohammad was your no 1 or 2 name this year for newborns. When it gets back to Harry, George, or Basil, or even Percy, let us know.
Steyn is correct as it stands.
Polygamy, really! For Gawdsake are you some outback African or Middle Eastern sinkhole? NO! You are not. Then stop the pandering to the nutters.

[Michael Lonie]

Steyn is quite aware of slowing Muslim birthrates. His point is, as he puts it, that demography is a matter of the last one left standing. Muslim birthrates in Europe as well as in the Muslim countries have been significantly higher than those of Europeans, hovering far below replacement rate, for decades, even if they are now slowing, and remain higher now and for the foreseeable future.

Nor does complacency about what we might call yobbo Muslims look good. They may not be pious but they are aggressively Muslim. Extremist Islam has become a badge of ethnic identity for Muslims in the West, and in particular for the younger generation. In general, they are more radical than their parents and grandparents were. They have a sense of entitlement, including entitlement to rule, that will not wait for democratic results as the percentage of Muslims among the military age men in Europe increases, and the ability of Europeans to defend themselves declines.

[linda]

Michael, is a "yobbo" a second or third generation Muslim?
Personally, I wouldn't give citizenship to any illegal and slow to give citizenship for a green card holder.
Get out your broom.

[section9]

Here's a clue: over the next four to eight years, the North Atlantic Treaty is a dead letter. There is no way the U.S. Taxpayer is going to continue to underwrite European Welfare states, especially since it's the Anglo-Saxon powers that won WWII in the West that are pulling their weight in Afghanistan. Don't think, even for a moment, that the Special Relationship isn't dead as a dodo, either. Gordon Brown can eschew talk of the Special Relationship, but George and Condi look at what happened to the Royal Navy and the RAF and can do the math.

Why do you think we signed that naval treaty with the Japanese?

If Gordon Brown wants to turn Britain into Belgium with the Changing of the Guard, more power to him. But that's not our problem.

[linda]

Yes, 9, NATO is on it's last legs. The Pentagon and the Senate are furious about the money we pump in and what we get out is European estrogen. They live in their own bubble as usual. They have a history of that, don't they?
It's over for American sympathy for Europe. I don't think there will be another NATO action like Bosnia again. I think you will get from the US, "Do it yourselves Asshats". And that is what you will get from us from Europe pathetic and underfunded military in Afganistan.
Poo on ya, Europe. You are not worth saving again.

[Bruce]

Can people, especially fans of the BBC, please get it through their heads that statements like "catastrophes like invading and occupying Iraq" are not axiomatic truths in the real world. Rather such claims are eccentric interpretations at best, are unproven and need to be supported by some sort of evidence: When? How? Why?

Constant repetition of a myth, even one which is very popular among a certain class, does not make it true.

[davod]

"There's always the Aussies and the Indians"

Sorry, the Aussies and the Inidans moved away from Britannia many years ago.

While the Muslim birthrate in Europe may be declining, although I do not concede this, it is still higher than the native birthrate.

It also seems that the offspring of immigrants, unlike earlier waves of immigrants, are turning away from the values of the country. I tend to agree with Melanie Philips that the values of the UK have so declined that it leaves little for an immigrant or his offspring to hang their hats on. I suppose we have multiculturalism to thank for this.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Where do these people get their information from? The ignorance of our country is beyond belief.

[Deborah]

Malcolm Dunn,
Perhaps it's not ignorance, just a different perspective?

[Tristan Downing]

Well I see we have the usually high levels of paranoia and dramatics from the Americans. Whilst they are right that our current situation is bad (Londonistan is good for no one), the idea that we will be forever lost to it is silly. We have after all been trapped with a pathetic left wing government which is about to be brought to its knees by its own stupidity. Yes we need to fix immigration, yes we need to police our borders, yes we need to deport all foreign criminals and those that openly hate us, and yes we need to move away from EU control of those issues and others But that doesn't mean it can't be done.

I would rather have a different alliance. Though I'm not quite sure how it would work yet. It would be between, Britain, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India and Japan. Anyone else joining would be on the condition they pull their weight. So France and Germany look to be out.

[davod]

"Where do these people get their information from? The ignorance of our country is beyond belief."

What information is in dispute?

[Igirisu Jin]

As long as we have the Civil Service run by right wing, educated, secret societies, and leave the politicians out of real decision making, I think we'll be okay! lol

We do need radical moves in regards to immigration, citizenship, state handouts, and breeding. If we don't have that, as unpopular as it may be to the bleeding heart masses that the likes of the BBC have lumbered us with, the these American predictions of doom and gloom may not be so far fetched.

We can put caps on immigration, thats a must and must be done soon. There's even a lot of people that need to be removed from the country (anyone who isn't a citizen or has only been for say 5 years and who breaks the law). But, realistically, how do we reduce the rate of breeding amongst the immigrant population, whilst still staying in power? Obviously having the right policies to fix the country doesn't count for anything if someone else is in charge.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Davod,some quotes from above
'since Britain is more America's enemy than friend'
Britain is filled with Jihadi nutcases and lunatics'
'the UK has forgotten your own history'
'There's always the Aussies and Indians'(as allies).
The a***hole calling himself Jim Rockford could go and tell that to the British servicemen fighting and dying in Afghanistan.
As regards the last point,where are their troops?

[Igirisu Jin]

America and Britain have been friends on and off, though mostly on since the brief and small civil war in which the colony went its own way. Britain has never been enemies with the United States. And that includes independence; since that skirmish was between British and British (we haven't forgotten history). We've been on the same side in every conflict that we've both take part in since. So whilst we have our differences, I'd say we were more friends that enemies.

Britain does often appear full of Jihadist-like nutcases and lunatics and is a breeding ground for terrorism, but that dramatics about it make it look worse than it is. It is still a minority. Though there are far too many people here that hate the British.

The Aussies and Indians (though the latter has some maturing to do on the world stage) would make good allies, as well as others, but Afghanistan is a NATO operation and both those countries couldn't be further from the North Atlantic. Maybe we should replace NATO something stronger and more far reaching.

British and American soldiers have been fighting and dying on the same side for longer than I've been alive. Though I often get the feeling that the Americans have little respect for the massive contribution in lives, experience and expertise of its main ally, the UK.

[Deborah]

"As long as we have the Civil Service run by right wing," - Igirisu Jin

Gosh, if only.....

[Igirisu Jin]

Haha, I know it's a pipe dream. A world where things are sensible.. It sounds too crazy to take seriously doesn't it?