'Fitna': by Geert Wilders

Well Geert Wilders' film 'Fitna' is finally out, as of last night, and so far there is no need to retire to the bunker.  At the time of writing there's been a bit of rioting in Karachi but Holland itself is still standing if - thanks to its government - slightly cowed.

The film itself - the edited YouTube version of which is above, click here for the full 15min version - is well worth seeing.  It isn't for the faint-hearted: footage includes some of the most barbaric acts committed by the jihadists.  But there's no burning of the Koran or ripping up of the Koran, or any of the other allegedly 'shocking' things which the Dutch government and others revealingly predicted would be in the film.  The film simply shows what the Koran says and then shows footage of certain Muslims carrying out those words to the letter.  To this extent, anything which people find shocking in the film should be put at the doors of Mohammed and certain of his followers, not Wilders.

Speaking to various media about this today, it's interesting that the first sense of shock is that the footage which Wilders includes is so bloody.  Of course Wilders didn't create this footage - the jihadis did.  But it raises an interesting question about the mainstream media.  In the last seven years the MSM has gone out of its way to spare the public from seeing the most barbarous acts of our enemies.  As we discovered when the BBC infamously pixellated the cartoons two years ago, even Danish drawings have been deemed too upsetting to broadcast of late.  The footage in Wilders' film of the victims of jihad is therefore especially sobering.  It isn't pleasant viewing, but then jihad isn't pleasant viewing, and if this is what it takes to alert people to the savagery of the threat we all face, Muslims included, then there it is.

I hope as many non-Islamists as possible see the film and consider its implications.  But I also hope that the Islamists themselves are not so stupid as to fall into the oldest idiocy of theirs: that is the one which says "Say my religion is peaceful or I will kill you."

Incidentally, if people are interested - here is an interview with Wilders I did for the Spectator a couple of weeks back, just as he was finishing the film.

Comments

[Malcolm Dunn]

Anything to promote anti Muslim feeling eh Douglas? You must be delighted.

[Griswold]

I watched it. Powerful. The Muslim lobby will have something to say - acts justified, Palestine etc. But 'res ipsa loquitur'.

Very sad to be reminded of the suffering of Ken Bigley. Being killed in battle is one thing. Held as captive and then subjected to mental torture being killed in a barbarous manner says something about the Koran message to certain followers. Its a problem for Muslims really.

[Alex Deane]

Malcolm Dunn, in the face of stark evidence of these abuses yours is an utterly bizarre reaction.

[David]

Of course, I could make a film showing the Koran and muslims carrying out charitable and community work.

Or a film showing the Bible and Christians blowing up abortion clinics.

Of itself, it means nothing about muslims in general. The film is simply rabble rousing. Sure, it's got a right to be shown, but it's no different in nature than those muslims who shout 'Death to the West' in marches.

[Mr Angry]

Fitna is a factual account of how the views of some members of a particular religion have been translated into viscious and bloody acts of violence. Just because this is an unpalatable truth for some, especially those on the left, who do not wish to accept the reality of fundamentalist Islam and the Jihadis does not make it any less true or valid.

[Steevo]

Indeed Mr Angry.

This is a small peek. Its raw inhumanity and there's never been any worse. To cast the slightest excuse is or slight blame is a sickness within Western culture.

[Yank182]

I love the "Christians bombing abortion clinics" comments. Name the year of the last abortion clinic bombing. I can't remember if it was in the 90's or not. Mention any atrocity commited by the R.O.P. and you ask yourself, "Was that last Monday or Tuesday?". Come up w/ a new angle for moral equivilance please.

[Ella Lackey]

Alex Deane.

No, you cannot compare abortion clinic bombings with Muslim terrorism for several reasons.

First, there is NOTHING in the New Testament about killing anyone (aside from Jesus himself, and that is, obviously, different). We are never, ever to assault someone for any reason. Turn the other cheek and all that. (The New Testament is about individual relationship with God, not governance - which is why St. Paul exhorted people to obey and submit to laws *that ordered them, as Christians, to be killed* while holding fast to their faith and doing the right thing. Ponder that.)

Even in the Old Testament, the Law is just that - the law. There were judges, hearings, and clearly defined rules and reasons for punishments. It is never acceptable to take the law into your own hands and commit violence, even in a "violent" book.

Secondly, do you know how many abortion clinic bombings or shootings there have been? IIRC, it's seven. Total. In 35 years. Those are still seven reprehensible and murderous acts, but not comparable to what Muslims - in the name of their god - do weekly.

[Steevo]

A couple more points Ella. The overwhelming majority within the Christian community condemned the actions. And from what I remember these bombings were intended to destroy the facilities, not kill. In comparison to Muslim inhumanity, there is none.

[David Ross]

Guys, "David" over here already knows all that. He's had almost 7 years since 9/11 to ponder this. If he hasn't been convinced by now then you're not going to convince him.

Am I saying he's a troll who needs an IP ban? Why yes... yes I am.

[Buckinghamshire Tory]

Indeed it isn't for the faint-hearted, but none the less a very important film.
Mr Balkendes reaction (indeed, the reaction of the enire Dutch political establisment) have been very weak and cowardly.

I just hope Geert Wilders doesn't suffer the same fate as Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh.

[Doug]

I almost puked when I saw and heard the ma in the orange jumpsuit.

If the mainstream media showed the true barbarity there would be much stiffer resolve to confront rather than appease the extremist Islam problem.

[Hardcore Conservative]

Perhaps those on this site who defended the Archbishop of Canterbury’s foolish comments would now care to reflect?

We must never give one inch to these people, not now, not ever.

[Howie]

If you were sickeded by the short clips and sounds that were used in this film you should see the original unedited versions. They are effing evil. You will either puke or feel you r face warm as the fight or flee impulse releases the adrenaline. Its truly sick and evil and yes people should see just what these animals do.

[Englander]

I thought it was a very sensible film, not extreme in the slightest. It simply pointed out some inconvenient facts.

[Amy]

I didn't flee, but I did put my hand over the screen several times... there are some things I guess I can't watch. But this...this needs to be seen by the world!!!!!

[Man in a Shed]

I go along with the comments made by Cranmer (see his post else where ) on this - what is truly chilling is the self censorship and deference being shown by the progressive media. A media that takes great joy in provoking Christianity and urging the government on to repeal the blasphemy laws.

For years we were fed the line that Islam was the religion of peace, only to discover that the peace only comes after your surrender.

The film is shocking. The violence is such an obvious afront to God, and the speeches we have heard before on Undercover Mosque - though somehow it is now seen as un-PC to report and record what people say (hello West Midlands police - this means you).

It does not seem to me to be an adequate exploration of the verses shown from the Quran, but it does leave you wanting to seek one as a matter of urgency.

By the way I didn't realise the image was Ken Bigley - somehow I thought they had treated him a bit better. (Must come from listening to the BBC.)

[Man in a Shed]

I note that threats of violence against its staff have now forced Liveleak to remove the video from its site.

This is now the sort of society we live in where what is right or wrong is determined by criminal threats and violence.

[Janners]

The fact that its now been removed due to death threats surely gives some credence to the points raised in the film?

[Mr Disgusted]

Of course Cameron will tackle this barbarity by building them some more community centres and another forum or two.

The whole political establishment is in denial so why even bother discussing it until it can be discussed in simple and honest terms by them?

[Tryingtobe helpful]

"The Clash of Civilizations and The Remaking of World Order" Pub 2002
By Samuel P Huntington

"One of the most important books to have emerged since the end of the cold war"
Henry Kissinger.

Is a must read - it would appear most of
the political "elite" have never read it.

[Letters From A Tory]

I cannot believe this film has been taken down thanks to threat from those religious cowards who are too afraid to confront Wilders in the open so resort to dirty and dispicable tactics like this.

Appeasement is not the answer - leaving freedom of speech to die is not an option.

[Charles Martel]

Wilders' short film has received a lot of publicity for obvious reasons but there have already been at least two longer, more rigorous and detailed documentaries chronicling the bloody trail of Islamic violence over the last few years and the clear threat to moderate Muslims, non-Muslims and Western civilization. They are "obsession" http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/ and "Islam vs the Islamists" http://www.islamdocumentary.com/ which PBS refused to air.

"If a tree falls in the woods and the BBC does not consider it newsworthy, does it make a sound?"

[Ben Stevenson]

Paul Hill was a Christian minister who murdered a doctor in an abortion clinic. He was excommunicated by his church in 1993 for his view, before he murdered the doctor in 1994. His church acted appropriately. It made it clear that Paul Hill's views were unacceptable. A church cannot be blamed for actions it clearly opposes.

Incidentally, Richard Dawkins decided not to mention Paul Hill's excommunication when he made his Channel 4 documentary The Root of All Evil.

[Gege]

It is true that there are certain aspects of the koran which are reprehensible. It is also true that we have a significant number of muslims who are willing to pertuate acts of barbaric violence.

In Africa, we have the Lord's Resistance Army who have used parts of the Bible to justify the hacking of limbs, rape of children and slaughter of women. In Nigeria, we have numerous born again ministers who torture their followers and extort money off them in the name of Jesus.

As a society, we should recognise that the threat to our values come from the extremist sections of all religions and militant secularists.

The battle is one between believers in universal human rights and opponents of universal human rights.

The enemies of human rights can be found in all sections of society. Tackling islamic extremism is only one battle in the wider war for universal human rights.

[Griswold]

Man in Shed

I believe the footage to be the barbaric murder and torture of Ken Bigley but am not certain of this.

Strange that Muslims did not take to the streets protesting against the debasement of their religion following these murderous acts. Now where, before, has a minority of muderous ideologues promoting the superioty of their 'way of life' held sway over a large population.

We are too cowardly to learn from history that appeasement begets a legacy of evil and destruction. This is our grandchildren's inheritance.

Mr Wilders is a man of courage. All he wants is his freedom of speech to be protected.

[Dontmakemelaugh]

Gege @ 12:12

Fortunately the people you refer to in Africa do not appear on the worlds radar. Where as Islam is a world wide religion and has its own theocratic State of Iran. The call to violence must stop.

[Miranda]

You can still see the video on YouTube.

[Gege]

Don't make me laugh,

To be fair, the radical sunni extremists in these videos get most of their support from saudi arabia and pakistan. The west's allies.

[BlairSupporter]

My concern is the British press's fits of outrage and painful freedom-loving anguish over the freedom of speech which has been silenced (with their assistance, it seems) in the downing of LiveLeak's video.

Oh, hang on ... missed a bit.

My concern is the British press's LACK OF fits of outrage ..."

The video was a reminder of facts. Pictures with words. Simple, even for a five year old to grasp.

Thought-provoking? I hope so. Those who need to do the thinking are the good Muslims of this world, but they need to do it fast.

One day we in this country - infiltrated as we are more deeply than most European nations - are going to have had enough. Then we will ask WHY our politicians are scared to tackle the issues. No-one - not ONE of the present lot in the main 3 parties - has the guts to say - "we have a problem here."

Understandable I suppose. Look what happened to the last one who tried to tell us. Or did he go because of Iraq?

Don't make me laugh.

[Terry]

The video has now been withdrawn from Liveleak due to threats. It is entirely fair to designate as spineless political cowardice the failure by our rulers and would be rulers - whatever their party - to stand up unequivocably for the right to make and distribute a video like this.

[An Observer]

The problem with "Fitna" is, it's really just the tip of the iceberg...showing some well-known "global" events, to be sure...but focusing mainly on the effect and problems confonting unchecked Muslim immigration in The Netherlands. Nonetheless, Geert Wilders should be commended for his courage and his bravery!

A more fitting "Fitna" movie would be one showing WORLDWIDE and DAILY attrocities and attacks in the name of Mohammed.

Of course, such a movie has a snowball's chance in hell of being made...until then, we can keep tabs on the "religion of rage" at sites on the internet like these:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

[Simon Denis]

Hmm - quite agree about Wilders' courage. Yes - immigration into Europe is too high - way too high and it's been like that for some time. I also believe that we need to stop bashing the poor, cowed church and start having a well earned laugh at Islam. BUT we need to beware of gloating over extreme images. Even the picture which heads this thread was enough for me. Remember, this film could do some seriously weird stuff to vulnerable, impressionable young heads. Moreover, the strength of the warning is inopportune - it's too late for that sort of thing. Because of unchecked mass immigration - whatever the ostritch optimists of the left may say - we are now flying in stormy conditions. An abrupt turn on Muslim populations by outraged natives could provoke serious civil unrest. The best we can do is to engineer a soft landing - in other words, keep quiet and turn off the immigration taps. Then we wait for gradual secularisation to do the work which the left took - stupidly - for granted. It may well take fifty years. The Roman empire fell because of unchecked immigration. Unassimilated groups refused to accept the authority of Rome. Large chunks of territory were de facto gothic. We are in serious danger of the same happening today with Moslem enclaves in Europe. Certainly, those poisonous, flabby imams think so. Are they wrong? Recent immigration figures are alarming - two thousand new settlers into Britain a week; forty thousand arranged marriages allowed more or less on the nod in the course of 2007 alone. "We must be mad - literally mad..." The poor old boy didn't know the half of it. However, we should have listened but we didn't - or rather, our socialist masters didn't. We are now where we are and a la Machiavelli we have to play the fox.

[Dontmakemelaugh]

To be fair, the radical sunni extremists in these videos get most of their support from saudi arabia and pakistan. The west's allies.

Posted by: Gege | March 29, 2008 at 13:42

To be fair Gege, Osama Bin laden, related to Saudi royalty, has been banished from the land of his birth and is an outcast. Members of al Qaeda are hunted down in Saudi, shot or imprisoned

President Musharraf of Pakistan cooperated with the Americans in hunting down the terrorists in the border lands - radical Muslims in Pakistan made his job difficult.
here is a headline from Dawn, an English language paper published today, regarding the new leadership of Pakistan.

"New leadership sees militants as enemy, says White House
WASHINGTON, March 28: The new Pakistani leaders understand that terrorists hiding in the tribal belt are a threat to them as well and are willing to fight them, says the White House.... "

[Simon]

The beheading footage is of American engineer Jack Hensley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hensley

[Glenn]

I am sad to say, that to watch these sick bastards speak and act as they do with no remorse, I fear we will never find peace or just simply some common understanding. I hope the powers that be will find someone way of stopping this destruction of human life, I fear so much for my / our children, I pray for them. We must though give praise to the people who publicly speak out for peace with the obvious danger to themselves, very brave.

[Chris]

'Fitna' is the Zionist's 'The Eternal Jew'. 'Free speech' is Zionists criticising anyone they like, and 'Hate speech' is anyone criticising Zionists. They are trying to have it both ways.

[Helga]

As a Dutch supporter of Wilders it feels good to read these comments. A lot of Dutch people feel totally abandoned by our spineless government. They have not learned a single thing from their open attacks on Pim Fortuyn which ended in his murder. Wilders suffers the same treatment. But he just might survive since he has the security Fortuyn didn't get.

[E.D. Kain]

The thing that strikes me about Fitna, is the amount of mainstream backlash and condemnation against Mr. Wilders. While men like Errol Morris can create films of condemnation re: the abu ghraib scandal and show so-called atrocities and the like, and yet the table is turned, and Islamist violence is revealed, or rather chronicled (quite briefly) and this is cause for censorship, protest, etc.

Double standards?